You’re Not Good Enough to Travel as a DJ 🙅

On this episode of the Grow My DJ Business Podcast Cream & Gary W Discuss:  

• The traditional path for DJs has changed significantly.
• DJs need to build trust with their audience from the start.
• Emerging DJs must adapt to current music trends to succeed.
• The competition for travel gigs is more intense than ever.
• DJs should continuously update their music knowledge and skills.

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Chapters

• 0:00 The Evolution of DJing and Travel Gigs
• 11:02 Understanding the DJ-Fan Relationship
• 20:33 Navigating the Current DJ Landscape
• 28:26 The New Path for Emerging DJs
• 36:50 The Role of Luck and Hard Work in Success

Transcript

0:42

All right, what's up guys? Welcome to the hundred and eighty fifth episode of the grow my DJ business podcast. My name is cream. Gary W here back on track with the intro back on track. When it's been a while, it's what happens, but you know, grease and got grease in the gears. We're going. Yeah, I think this might be a quick episode, the topics we have to talk about I think are pretty important. uh We sort of jumped into it a little bit uh last time, one of the topics today, but... You know, the topic of like, want to be a travel DJ comes up so often when I talk to our DJs or just younger DJs in general. And we talked about uh last episode how like my, my path of getting to where I've gotten to doesn't really exist anymore. You know, like the path of local DJ grind out shows, book a ton of stuff, become like a bigger DJ in your home market, and then start booking travel shows, like sign to an agency, like I just don't think that that's super realistic right now. And one of those, one of the reasons why is these open format or, you know, travel DJ gigs just are not as, they're not, there's not as many as they once, as there once were, right? Clubs are closing, clubs are not making as much money. And in turn, they're not spending as much money. They don't want to spend $2,000 on a DJ when they have guys at home that are close to as good, you know? In some cases, maybe they're better. Maybe they know their room better than the travel DJ that's coming in that doesn't know the market. And I sort of bring this up because I was watching some social media stories and like seeing DJs, well-known DJs that are traveling around the country. And like, I hear what they're playing in their sets. And I'm like, this is from like, this is EDM from 10 years ago. Like customers that are in that venue do not... connect with that music right now. It's like so, there's a huge disconnect between what the DJ's playing and what the customer wants, in my opinion. Now, this is just from like an Instagram story or real or TikTok video. This is not from like me being there and seeing a crowd not get excited. There is a reason for this. A lot of the guys that are traveling and playing all the rooms around the country at that level are of a certain age, just as we always talk about. everybody, you, some, in our, when we were coming up, DJs hit their stride around like 35 and forward because you had already. established your relationships and then those relationships grow and those people move around and then you're able to start to grow and grow and grow outside of your market, right? So a lot of these guys that we're seeing that kind of are traveling all around the country right now are of a certain age. I because I am sometimes uh guilty of this. My perspective on this is that that DJ or those group of DJs that you're seeing play these old songs is they don't trust that the newer house music is going to work in those rooms. They don't trust that the consumer and the customer is educated enough in the newer stuff to take the chance to play some of that newer music. I think that's a portion of it. I mean, I know you're gonna take the side of, maybe the DJ isn't educated also, but... Yeah, do your homework. Like, you gotta know what's popular and what's good and what's working. 100 % but I think that there is a stigma around an uneducated customer base because that is and was a conversation for a long long long time about my god it doesn't matter I can get away with the same set or I have to play the same set to keep getting the same requests I see that happen in a lot of the rooms that I play but then also I'll go into playing the newer, like whatever the sound is at the moment. Right now it's what? It's like a bass house sound, right? Now I play 30 minutes, 45 minutes of that and that all works. And it really gets the energy in the room going. It's just taking the step. sometimes I feel like, I'm doing too much or I'm not playing with what the crowd wants. But realistically, as long you're playing energetic music that there might be some kind of vocal that they can that they can sing to, like it's a safe bet. That's even safe. You could take it a step further and play like the actual song at this point. Our customer base is becoming so educated in different types of music due to all of the ways that you're able to consume music, whether that be YouTube, whether that be DJ mixes, whether that be Spotify, you name it. uh I think we need to trust that our crowds are more educated in their music knowledge. How do want me to attack this first? Do want me attack it from the DJ side or the fan base side? Go on the fan base side because I think we can kind of really get a dig into the DJ portion of it after that. Yeah, the fans know the music. In most cases, in most cases, 90 % of the time, right? Like, if you're in a nightclub, a prominent nightclub across the country, the fan is there, has gone to see Dom Dalla, has gone to see John Summit, has gone to see whoever. They're not, they're trying to hear tremor, original or booyah or like these songs that are so dated and the sounds that are so dated and are so corny to me. Like I refuse to play that stuff unless I absolutely have to or it's like, I know I have that crowd. That's the only time that I'm even considering playing any of that stuff. That sound is so far gone. And for me to see videos of bigger DJs, supposedly like, you know, the higher price travel DJs playing that stuff. It's just like, dude, you have no clue. Like you just don't get it. And the customers know they have Spotify at their fingertips. They're on social media all day. They see the side piece pop up at New York City. They see Fred again, big shows. They see it. They know the music. And unless you're in a casino, I use a casino all the time because that's like your, that's like the most vanilla show to me that I'll ever play because you just have like different age groups and a lot of times people that don't necessarily go out. Your fan base is not as knowledgeable there than in most places, I think. And that's why I use the casino as an example because like the way I play that room is way different than I play all the other places that I play. But As a DJ, you still are gonna go test the limit of like, I'm playing the big records that are popular right now that I like, that are in my sound, just to see if they work also, you know? And I didn't get to watch the set, so they probably did, you know? And you're just catching that moment of booyah that's happening or whatever. Yeah, but like know, man, like the people, there is less and less people going out. The people that are going out want to be there. They know the music. Yeah, I feel like I'm guilty of this at times and need to take some more chances during the peak hour portion of the night. I take all my chances at the beginning of end of the night, but my peak hour, I stay super safe. And I realize that I'm doing that and I don't have to. I don't have to stay super safe. I can play all the bigger, I I play all the top records for sure, like the top 10 records. house records or whatever the genre might be. I think, and this is a lesson to everybody, you can definitely take some more chances in the middle of your set and it doesn't need to be the same old usual bullshit. Because then it could direct you, it could direct your set into a completely different place and now the possibilities are endless. are my favorite parts of the night because I'm excited for the crowd to be receptive to stuff that I really want to play. Because maybe I start my set with the stuff to hook people, right? Like I start my set with the stuff that I know is gonna work, especially in a new city or a new room. It's like, I'm gonna hook people with the stuff that's gonna work. It works in every room in every city that I go to. And then once we do that for a while, then it's like, all right, now you get a piece of what I really do. And like, here's the cream stuff and here's my sound or here's my original or here's just stuff that I think is cool. And maybe you guys do too. And if you do, then we're really going to go on this fun journey and I'm going to be super excited to DJ the rest of the night. And if you don't, okay, that's fine. We took a chance. It didn't work. We're going to go back to what you guys are into. Yeah, I I got to see you play for the first time in a long time in Tampa, and you did exactly what you just explained. Exactly that. And it's a recipe that worked, and a recipe that works. um Because you're right, when you're traveling, and even if you're not traveling, and you're not sure of your crowd at the beginning of the night, you do want them to trust you. You have to build a trust. I think that's a huge portion of DJing that... we don't think about all the time is that that crowd doesn't know you from a hole in the wall most of most of the time, right? Like 90 % of the time, even at the places that you might be a resident at that you're playing once a month, that crowd that beginning of the night crowd probably has no idea where who you are because your resident your your regulars are coming in later on, right? There's people in my own market who probably don't even know who I am. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not here as much as I once was. so build that trust at the beginning. this guy's good, he's playing great, he's got great track selection, I'm familiar with the songs, I don't feel like I need to go somewhere else. You create that trust, that vibe, and then you can hook him with some new stuff. It's not always easy to do it the other way around, where you're playing stuff that they don't know at the beginning of the night. have music that people are buying tickets to come see. Until you reach that point, you have to do what your customer and fan base wants. Until you're creating the artists that people are streaming your music millions of times and I go and play my music and I play my sound and that's it. I haven't earned that right yet. Most of us have not earned that right to play whatever we want to play. We have to cater to our crowds. Yeah. That's like 95 % of DJs in the world, right? probably more than that. But like the reason why I really wanted to talk about this was because I think a lot of times the DJs that are getting paid this high a dollar amount to travel around, like we're all older, right? We've been doing this a long time in most cases. And the reason we're going to get into this next topic, one of the reasons why younger DJs can't break into these other markets is because... All of us older DJs are still doing it, you know, and we're still booking these high and we have name value and there's a lot of DJs that have bigger names than me. They've been doing this way longer than me that just have name value. But if those DJs are not still doing the work to be the best DJ they can be, it's hurting nightlife. It's hurting the overall travel DJ market and budget. And part of this is why We're hurting, right? There's many reasons why our industry is hurting. This is one of the reasons, I think. It's definitely a portion of it. um Like when I went out to go see DJs that are on your level, who are still actually those same DJs that are doing it, which is crazy, because that was almost 20 years ago, you know, the Chachis of the world, the Clutches of the world. I went out and I was impressed. Now was a different time because it was more open format and those guys were very technically skilled. as far as scratching and things like that, wordplay, things like that. Like that was really the big draw. And you'd go out and you'd watch these DJs and like, oh, I understand why they get paid what they get paid. You know, I feel like sometimes that can get lost in an EDM world where it's like, I know you don't have to do a lot of tricks, but you still have to own your room and really command the dance floor and get people involved and make people want to be there. Yeah. and play the relevant stuff that the 21 to 25 year old crowd wants to hear and wants them to come back the next time you're in town. That's the important portion of it that kind of lost. Right, because if someone books cream for a high dollar amount, right, way more than they would pay for like three, four times more than they would pay their local DJs, and I come in and I don't play the right music and I don't read the Maroon and they don't make money, why should we ever spend three times the amount of... Did you lose me? I lost you. It just went away. I've never seen that happen before. Me neither. I never signed off. I can edit this. Yeah, we're gonna have to edit. mean... It's fine, we can edit it, but we didn't lose it. I never signed off, the clock just kept going. I was like, I'm not touching this just in case he can come back. All right, where was I? You were saying, would you ever spend, if you can't keep the room, you can't do that, why would you ever spend money? Right, so we had some technical difficulties, but what I was saying was, if you spend all this money and the DJ can't keep a room and doesn't make the club revenue and we make more money with our local guys, why would I spend money on other DJs in this realm? But if I book Kareem and he comes in and he crushes and my crowd is so excited and they stayed later and we made $10,000 more than we usually do on a regular night. then yeah, this concept works and we can continue booking this level of DJ and spending more money. And like, so that's why it's so important. It's important for everyone in this level of DJing because there are so many less places to play and so many less slots at this price point, at this point. Do you feel like, and this could be apples and oranges, could be an apple and oranges question, but do you feel like on your travel gigs that your energy level going in from like Jump is exponentially more than maybe a home market gig? Because maybe there's more people in the room. I'm not at all of your travel gigs, but the one that I was at, you had a really nice bass crowd, a good bass when you walked in. ah to where you could have came in and almost started hitting them not with the biggest records, but you could have hit them with energetic records from the last five years and just keep super energy for the entire set. Do you feel like it's ratcheted up a little bit? you a little more amped up for one of these out of market sets? For sure, because you know, you're it's different. Generally, those rooms are better rooms, because they're willing to spend more money. But I think as a professional, it's my job to show as much energy and do the same amount of prep that I would do for a 500 or $600 New York show that I will for a much more higher priced high profile show that's out of market. And I think that's just being a professional in this space. And my preparation is going to be relatively the same. And no matter what I'm like cream, like show energy, like dance around, do what you normally do at a local show that you would do on the road because I just think that's part of being a professional and putting out a really good product. You never know who's watching, who's there, who's listening. this is front of mind for me because Halloween set's coming up next week, right? And I know that set from Needle Drop, right from Jump, is gonna be just energy, very much like a New Year's Eve set. um Because you're usually, or like I saw in Tampa, you walk into a room full of people, you're able to play the set very much like that. I feel like those are always my best sets, right? I'm like, yeah, it might, a little bit two hours in or two and a half hours in because it's just go, go, go, go, go. You're just hitting bangers the entire night. But ah I just wonder if like that's kind of the mentality. Because my mentality is a little different during those nights. You know, my prep's a little different during those nights. knowing that it's gonna be good. And that you don't have to worry about, well, are they gonna react to this or what time is peak hour gonna really happen tonight? You know, you're gonna start DJing and people are gonna be there. And by 1130, 12 o'clock, like it's go time and it's gonna be go time for the rest of the night. So yeah, when I walk into Barstool Nashville, like it's there's 1000 people there at 9pm and like. Christ. I go on at whatever time I go on, it's go time the whole night. So like, yeah, you got a little extra juice from that for sure. But yeah, like even as a booker, right? I have to explain why we should bring someone in to Birch and spend 2X what we would normally spend. Why are they going to be better than Cream or better than Timo or better than Two-Face or better than any of the other local guys that our venue really, really likes? If I book T-Mo or Two-Face, like, I don't have to worry. I know it's good. They know the venue. They know how everything runs. They can troubleshoot anything. They know the music that works. They can pivot if they need to. We're going to have a good night when they're there, you know, like they're going to keep a crowd. We're going to make decent money barring some outside problem. So why should we book the DJ from DC that's never been to Birch? Why should we book the DJ from Boston that's never been to Birch? So as a booker, I have to make the right choices so I can continue bringing in those people. And then the DJ has to come in and deliver so that we can continue spending the extra money. And that's why this is such a delicate process because if the booker's making the wrong choices and the DJ's not delivering, it destroys this level of booking. And we're seeing that a little bit right now, I think. This level of booking went through this about 10 years ago, if you remember. There was like a little bit of a fall off where, at least in our market it did, where it wasn't as viable to book this higher echelon of DJs. Now was that because the younger talent was coming up and you had good talent just on the younger end where, why am gonna book X when Y's doing just as good of a job? know, Cream's doing a great job, he's our... resident every Saturday, do I need to bring in this not out of market like there were some bigger in market names then that did kind of happen. You know, do you think that was a testament of the talent in the in the market? Or do you think that there was we went through like a little bit of a lull in the in the industry? Are we using like my birch residency as an example basically? Yeah, I was even thinking like, yeah, T, Quest 5, all those places. um 46 Lounge. We had an owner who really like, he wanted a consistent, he wanted a consistent DJ because he liked me, he knew what we were going to get. We were making money, we were selling out all our tables anyway. So why spend more money when I have the DJ that's doing a good job and we're selling out every weekend anyway? Why change that? I think that was the way that we were looking at it. I think once Once you're in a place for a long enough time, it's like, all right, let's try something else. Let's do something different. Like, Cream's doing a great job, but maybe we could do something better. Maybe we're not selling out every weekend anymore. So like, let's try something new. And the market tells you that it's time for a change. And yeah, like, the decisions of what DJs come into a certain venue are so important. Yeah, it's the maker break of your night. oh we have amazing DJs locally that are doing the travel stuff or good enough to do the travel stuff. Real quick, Chachi and I talked about this a lot and he was just like, dude, you know, like... And sorry, Chachi, I don't mean to put your business out there, but we had this conversation. He was like, you know, like, I'm just feeling stale right now. And I remember I'm like, bro, get back to like the basics, go download new music, go organize some new crates. And like, he came back from his shows that weekend. He was like, bro, that was awesome. Like, I feel reinvigorated. He was posting videos from his shows. He was sending me like folders of music, like, yo, I just got these, like these, these finds on hyped it, like check these out. We as DJs need that. Like, that's what keeps us going. Playing new music. We are, even though we're not record breakers anymore, that's the essence of what we have always been. And record breakers now is like, hey, here's a cool remix I found on SoundCloud. Or here's an edit that maybe someone sent me that I know is not out in the world yet. I want to play it. And it gets a really good reaction. I think we have to keep doing that to stay fresh. I have to keep making edits, playing my own stuff keeps me fresh. We all need to keep doing that. It's important. Big shout out to Chachi because I could tell he was excited that weekend because he did post a lot and he looked great doing it. He was killing it and ah it's good when you can see through the social media posts that like, he's excited to be there and do his thing. So big shout out to him. But you're right. And especially if you've been doing this for a long time, it's easy to feel stale. It's easy to feel stuck in your sets ah because... Like to go back to an earlier point, sometimes you do get stuck in some of those ways, in those older thoughts like, like I can't trust this crowd. Oh, you know, yeah, like I can't trust this crowd, so I'm not going to try this new record out. Or I don't want to take this chance because I don't want to lose the dance floor. Whatever it might be, you can get, you can get your in your head sometimes. And you're right. Just even just refreshing crates is sometimes for me bigger than downloading new music. Yes, downloading new music is huge. It's monumental, but usually I'll download some music and then I won't get to that for like two or three sets. Reorganizing a crate, it like rejuvenates my entire DJ set. Like I'm playing things together that I've never played together or, you know, one thing might spawn an idea just because I moved it from the bottom of a folder to the top of the folder. Like little things like that. Like I just dug into a disco house crate and like I had four huge records on the bottom of the the folder and I just pulled them up to the top and I put one, two, three, four, they're the first four tracks of my in my folder and I'm like, I'm going to use those now. I rarely get, I'm one of those DJs, I rarely get to the bottom of a folder. I'm like top heavy. I keep everything that I'm going to play at the top. But pay attention because sounds change. And it's something that I often have to often have to remind myself that like, hey, sounds change and trends change and they change quickly these days. So go and check everything in that folder and be like, see what's interesting to you this week that might not have been interesting last week because you saw something on socials, you know, dig into the stuff that you already have. You had downloaded it for a reason. Maybe it doesn't work this week, but it might work next week. great advice. I would say also sometimes you play one record and it's like, that worked. What other records do I have that are sort of in this same realm? And that could kind of bring you down a little run or a little path or some new music that you can then play. A lot of times with me, it's like producers that I get into where it's like, I really like like the dude, like Cody Co and Shallon. And I don't know how to say his name, but there's a few DJs where I'm like, let me go check out their sound clouds. Cause this one track is really working. Maybe they have other tracks that sort of fit in this world that I can play around that other track. And you're right for me, No Broke Boy is huge record this summer, right? How I'm going to play that every show. But if I play the original every show, I'm going to get sick of it. So how do I find different ways to play the same song or older songs, right? Like for a while, like hotel room service got really popular again, right? So how do I find like a few different versions that I can rotate in and out of my sets to keep it fresh for me? So I don't feel like I'm playing the same shit all the time. Or if I'm a resident, the people who work there aren't like, Kareem plays the same songs all the time, you know? You have to continually be updating. And when I walk into a room and it's those first 10 songs, like sure, maybe in a lot of rooms, those first 10 songs are gonna be similar, but I'm gonna find different versions to play them or different ways to play them to keep it fresh for me and keep it fresh for the audience who may or may not have seen me play before. Yeah, it's a, it's an art form and you're, you're constantly changing and yet you have to constantly change. There's a reason why all of these DJs command this dollar amount and are getting booked in these rooms. So they're all the best of the best, you know? And I would never shit on any of them because they've earned the right to make that much money and play those rooms. And it's really hard to do. And that's it. But I think we all need to make sure we stay on our end games. And like everybody, once you reach a certain level, you're doing everything you need to do to present the best version of yourself. It's an interesting time because all, I don't wanna say all because I'm not thinking through every single person, but I think most of the DJs that are in this uh price range were open format DJs. Absolutely. And that's what makes them good because they can leave a room and pivot. really, really good open format DJs. And now can travel around and play whatever their sounds might be. You know, and I think about like Rick Wonder in an open format room, like seeing him back, you know, 10 years ago, and he's just mind, he was mind blowing. Chachi was one of my favorite DJs for a long time when he would open for AM and whatnot. Clutch, same thing. I just said to Clutch, I'm like, dude, I need to come see one of your shows. It's been a minute since I've watched you work. Yeah, like from clutch, you know, upstairs days at Sound Factory to seeing him down at, you know, Deco Lounge play and AM would be playing upstairs or side room or whatever it might be, like some of the most impressive DJing ever. And now is, you get to grow into into these other aspects of your DJ career. uh It's interesting to see the evolution, but I don't know if that's going to be a thing here moving forward, because like these. kids kind have to establish sounds and have social media presence with sounds. like there's so much more, there's so much more of a digital footprint that like people would go back and be like, well, he's an open format DJ and then you're to get pigeonholed. That's where this whole social media age can affect the way a DJ grows. Cause it's just different. talking about, they're all grandfathered in. They've built their names the old fashioned way and they're still doing it and they're getting booked. The new group of DJs, this is a great transition because we're going to talk about this right now. The new group of DJs, it's a different path. You're again, you're not going to take my path. You're not going to take Chachi's path. It's a different path. Last episode, we talked about it, right? What's your identity? How are you presenting yourself? If a booker goes to your pages, what are they, can they learn about you quickly? Are you making music? Are you posting a ton of content? That's your path. This is the new generation's path. If you're not doing those things, you're never gonna get to Chachi's level or Clutch's level or any of these other DJs that we've been talking about. So every time we talk to this new group of DJs, our DJs or just whoever in general. The same question is, I want to get out of market. Like, how do I get out of market? I've done everything I can in my home market. Like, I'm ready to go, I'm ready, I'm ready for this. Guys, you're not ready. Most of you, 90 % of you are not ready. And the opportunity is a fraction of what the opportunity used to be. The opportunity is shrinking and all the DJs who are already doing those gigs are still doing them. So how can you catapult yourself from where you're at into this upper echelon of travel quote unquote open format party VIP DJs. It's gonna be really, really, really, really, really hard. What's the number one, like you have to own your market so much in the way that like there's nothing else to do. It's not playing the biggest club once. It's not playing the biggest club even once a quarter, right? Like. like multiple times a month or you're a resident there and you're rotating through the five best places in your market. If there's a huge Sunday party, you're playing it. If there's a huge Thursday party, you're playing it or you created it and have built it. You have to be the guy or girl or top three guy or girl, or you can't even consider this. Right, I think that's the major takeaway is like when to know. When to know. And like there aren't a lot of DJs that are owning our market, period. Not a lot. Not that are filtering through all of the spots. No, there aren't. There are not. whether it's having a residency in Jersey and then do an opener stuff for like when an artist comes into town. That's what used to happen. That's what the clutch and chochie things were. Right. Right. DJs from New York City and from Jersey were then going to Atlantic City and opening for Tiesto. Carlos Melange used to do this. He'd play every big show here and in New York and then he would go be the opener for the biggest shows in Atlantic City or the biggest shows on Long Island. That's what it used to be. Right. And that's the same way to look at it. Like you should be headlining, you know, on the nights that, you should be headlining major places on the nights that guys and girls aren't being brought in from out of town. Right? and to my point is when those people come in, like Tiesto just came to New York and played Brooklyn, like Luke Alexander was the guy. He was direct support, right? Rick Wonders direct support for the big, big, big acts. Are you guys Rick Wonder or Luke Alexander? Because if you're not, then you can't think you're gonna get these opportunities. You know what I'm saying? Like these opportunities are so few and far between that the level of DJ that's getting these opportunities are way higher than the local guy or girl, you know? Yeah. I think sometimes there is just, it's not as clear cut as it used to be. Maybe I don't understand it because I'm not going out to go see Tiesto anymore. You know what I mean? So I'm not seeing who's opening for him. Cause obviously like if he comes into town, like that opener's not on the flyer, obviously. forget who the first opener was, but it was definitely uh a producer who's making music and making waves in the house community, in the EDM community. It wasn't local DJ who's playing some good shows kind of thing. Just wasn't. It's not gonna be. It's not gonna be. to the point, it never has been. It never has been. It's always been the... It's been the Chachis and the Carloses and the Ricks before, again, in the old way, that was the journey. The new way you must produce your own music to even to be in consideration for any of these shows. You just have to. And you also have to have fans and have a social media presence. It's a different path. I'll say it a million times, if you're not willing to do what it takes right now in 2025 to get to those places, you can't expect to be in those places. Just because you play five good rooms in New Jersey and New York does not mean that you're gonna be the opener for Tiesto or any other, even a show that's a fraction of as big as that Tiesto show. Yeah. And I get frustrated because like, when we have these conversations with DJs, it's like, I'm ready, I'm ready. like, I know you're ready mentally, but you're not ready from like creating this artist and creating fans. You're not there yet. And you're not doing what you need to do to get there. I think it's like this in most industries, right? Like everybody wants, everybody wants a certain. I'm just trying to be real. It's important to hear. You know, it's important to hear. Everybody wants to get to that higher level, but do you want to put in the work to get there? And it's not like one of these things. It's not like sports where like putting when you're putting you putting in the work, it's done on your own time. You putting in the work here is super public. We all know if you're putting the work in or not. Like it's that right there. It's on all your socials. Are you making music or you're not making music? It's It's very black and white for every single person to see. You know, I could say I'm putting the work on the basketball court, but am I? Like, you know what? That's for me to know. Nobody knows. Right, are you waking up at 6 a.m. putting up 500 free throws before you go to school? Because there were kids that were doing that that were all county. and was I doing that? No, I was sleeping until 10 minutes before I had to go to school and go to school and then go into practice. You know what, I think about that because it's like, yes, can, it's just a very, it's very different. It's a very personal thing. Your work ethic and what you did is something on your own time, whereas this is very much out in the open. You could talk a good game, we all know. other side of this is this industry is so hard. It's so hard to make it quote unquote or to get a good break. And there are many artists who are putting in the work and not seeing the results. And my advice to you guys and girls is please just stay the course. Good music is good music. It will get found. Some people get found overnight. Some people it takes 10 years to get found overnight, you know, like Just keep, if you're making the music and you're doing the work, just keep doing it. Please, there's a single person I talk to relatively often who, this is my advice, is like, your music's fucking good, just keep doing it. Stay the course, I know it's frustrating, I know it's hard, I know you are seeing these other people getting put on shows that you think you should be there, I think you should be there too. You're just not there yet, but you're gonna get there. The music industry's hard, always has been, and any artist that you ever listen to an interview, any successful artist you ever listen to an interview with will always tell you the music industry is absolutely, it's cutthroat and it is hard. Not only do you have to know people sometimes, but you have to know people and be the best at what you do. And one of the best, one of best, and get lucky at the same time. It's all of those things. It is a. It is wildly difficult, but it's like every it's like the high end of every other thing in life. Right. And I talk about basketball, I'm said play at a very high level with very high level people. The people that I played with and went to high school with McDonald's, all Americans, you're like, they're going to the league. Didn't make the fucking league. Like we're talking about like the one percent, the one and a half percent. It just shows like how hard things are at a very high level, you know? And it takes, like I said, it takes all of those things. It takes, and luck's a huge part of that stuff. I listen to podcast uh called How I Built This, it's basically bringing on, yeah, bringing on founders of various businesses who like crushed, you know, all the biggest businesses you can think of. And they basically tell their story. And one of the questions that the host guy asks every time is, how much do you think this was luck? How much do you think it was hard work? And most of the people are like, I got so lucky. Like, yes, I was putting in the work, but like luck for sure. Like I got so lucky this moment. If this moment didn't happen, was a one in a million thing and it happened, it takes a lot of luck, but you have to be ready for that luck. You have to be ready for that opportunity and all the preparation and the stuff that you do for that one single moment. No one sees it, but that's what gets you ready to, to take that moment and run with it. That's where end in this episode. I was fired up. I've been fired up this episode. I'm losing my voice already over here. No, because like I'm so passionate about this and everything we talked about today is it's my journey. It's the DJs that we work with and trying to help them get to where they want to go. And it's like, we have a lot of those conversations and I hear their frustrations and like, I understand and I feel you. And it's just like, I'm sure a lot of you listening right now have related to a lot of what we talked about. But again, like, Gary and I just want to sort of be real with you and really tell you what it takes and I don't know. patience, it's hard work, it's staying the course, it's luck and it's talent. It's a little bit of all of those things. There's a lot of bit of all those things if you wanna really take the next step. There's levels, we said it, I forget whose episode it was, but there's levels to this just like everything else. I it was Beatbreaker's episode many, many, years ago. There's levels and like you know what, we're at the bot, like the local DJs at the Bottom, bottom level. There's a lot more levels after that, and it takes a lot of persistence, and it takes a lot of failure. Just gotta be patient. Look at some of the DJs who've been in your shoes. know, Prapa, it's taken a long time for him to get to where he is right now, where he's on fire. You know, we tried to book him locally for some stuff and like during the summer, he was a certain rate and three months later, he was away more than that. You know, it can happen really fast, but it took 10 years of Prapa building to that moment, you know? Sometimes it just clicks and then you're a rocket ship. Sometimes that can take a year, sometimes it can take 20. But you gotta be ready for it. And you gotta put the work in for it. Good stuff. All right, let's wrap there. Little promo. Solado and cream, light it up. Out now, all platforms, go show some love. Super excited about that one. uh If you're not following us on YouTube, please go subscribe to us on YouTube. We post the video version of this if you're listening to this on audio. Go follow us, give us a subscribe, drop some comments, likes. It would be super, super, super appreciative. We're really trying to grow. on that side of the world. So YouTube, go help us out. Anything else, Gare? That's it. Alright, appreciate you guys. Thanks for listening to this episode and we will talk to you guys next time. Peace.