Bad Bunny... The Greatest Artist of All Time 🐰 w/ Dramos

On this episode of the Grow My DJ Business Podcast, Cream, GaryW, & Dramos Discuss:

• Bad Bunny's impact transcends language barriers, appealing to diverse audiences.
• The DJ community has seen a significant shift with Bad Bunny's popularity.
• Bad Bunny's residency in Puerto Rico is a model for future concert experiences.
• Artists need to create unique experiences to stand out in the industry.
• The future of concerts may lean towards residency models rather than traditional tours.
• Passion projects can lead to innovative ideas in the entertainment space. Find the things you're passionate about and go all in.
• Avicii influenced many to embrace dance music.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Bad Bunny's Impact
• 2:16 Bad Bunny: The Greatest Artist of All Time?
• 10:06 The DJ Perspective on Bad Bunny's Music
• 14:48 Bad Bunny's Residency and Cultural Impact
• 21:12 Navigating Fame and Authenticity
• 24:31 Emotional Connection Through Music
• 27:30 The Future of Concert Experiences
• 34:07 Exploring Passion Projects and Community Engagement
• 37:58 The Impact of Avicii on Dance Music
• 46:55 The Evolution of Music Genres and Artist Risks
• 54:18 Emotional Connections Through Music and Legacy

Transcript

0:41

What's up guys, welcome to the hundred and seventy second episode of the Girl My DJ podcast. My name is Kareem. We have a very special guest for a very special podcast today. Long time friend, long time get down DJ. All right. You ready for this intro? Because like this guy's got like 10, 10 titles and jobs. DJ, producer, on air radio personality for Z100, ex producer and on air talent for the Breakfast Club on Power 105. Host of Life as a Gringo podcast, author, clothing designer, public speaker. What else we got? Did I miss anything? We got Dramos in the building. What's up Dramos? What up, man? I appreciate the intro. Yeah, I feel like I'm just like a toxic workhorse at this point when you laid out like that. But yeah, yeah, shit. Thank you. Thank you for the intro. Fun fact, man, me, Gary and Dramos were like the beginnings of what Get Down DJs are. Just three DJs, three friends trying to help each other and it's transformed greatly over the last five years or whatever it's been. But yeah, Dramos has been there from day one, which is pretty crazy. crazy. It's wild to think about. I'm super proud of you guys. It's so funny to reminisce about it, because it was super humble beginnings, to say the least, for a lot of those early venues. We'll talk probably a little bit about the impact of one of our topics here during that time. So that'll be a fun conversation. Yeah, so let's jump right into it. think there's Bad Bunny just dropped a new album. And I want to start this podcast off with it with a banger. Is Bad Bunny the greatest artist of all time? I'm biased. You guys know I'm going to be biased on this one as a. Yeah. listen. I mean, listen, there's you know, I know I've heard I've made this argument on my Instagram as I was caught up in the moment, but personally, I really do think there's a strong case to be made. I think you could obviously make a case for a lot of people. the Michael Jackson's of the world prints and all these incredibly just talented people. I mean, we can go the Beatles and just like there's legendary stuff and there's a lot of different metrics because of the different time periods as well. I've seen people counter with like my argument of Bad Bunny talking about, you know, how many albums Michael Jackson sold and all these things. And of course that's just not the world we live in where we can quantify that way anymore. The impact of an artist. But my argument for Bad Bunny is I just think because he is so against the grain in terms of like the ability to become a global icon like this. mean, first and foremost, he doesn't even make like music in English. You know what saying? So, you know, we're old enough to remember the earlier Latin stars like Selena or Mark Anthony or even Shakira. Like they all started in Spanish, but had to start making music in English to become the global icons that we all know them as, right? And he has somehow managed to create music that is just so good that even people who don't understand a word that he says still love and support it and like go crazy to it as much as I do as somebody who actually gets the messaging, you know? And you see it with like the records that he's breaking and like, you know, the fact that he's at the top of Billboard and Apple Music. And again, it's not in English. And even from like the radio side of it, All those artists that I mentioned, you know, even like the Jay-Z's of the world or the Kanye's, they all crossed over into Top 40 Radio and that made them ascend into that household name beyond just hip hop, right? Then they just became global music superstars, regardless of genre. Bad Bunny hasn't really had that support from Top 40 Radio. think like Z100 when I was doing a lot of on air stuff, they kind of dabbled with Takiti for a couple of weeks, like late night, but it never became a song in rotation. So he really had to just do this on the strength of a hardcore fan base and the internet, you know, and I think that speaks volumes in itself. And then I think the cultural impact is the last argument I would make on it as well. think, you know, he is somebody who somehow managed to give you the hit records, the club records and all these different things, but also is making music that is defining a culture and is a commentary on his people. and is politically moving the needle beyond, you know, just what people listen to, but also influencing their politics and getting involved and getting activated. And I think you can say that about somebody like Kendrick Lamar, but Kendrick drops an album every couple of years. Bet Bunny has consistently dropped an album like every year since he's come out, basically. And every single one has has hit for the most part, obviously on varying levels. But again, to me, that's then like a Drake in that comparison, right, where it's like, how has Drake been consistent for that long? Bad Bunny's getting to that level, but again, doing it beyond just cheap pop music and cheap club records, he's doing it with like a global societal and political impact. And then, this new album is like, bro, he made a salsa record, the number one song on Apple Music, which is insane. He made a Plano record, which is well before any of our times as far as like the popularity of that music was also number one on Apple Music. again, it's this, you know, way to... tabble into different things and tap into nostalgia and all this stuff and be a part of the culture. Like I can go on forever, but I can't see somebody of all the people I've listed these greats that managed to tap and hit every sort of human emotion from the, like I said, in that post that I made, he gave you the soundtrack to both the revolution and the party. And I can't really see anybody who's managed to consistently do that and still reach the level of success he has. Man, a lot to unpack right there. no, you're good, you're good. But we're used to you going on, so it's fine. But, kind of funny, I was having a conversation, I don't know if it was with you, I I have seen you a bunch lately when I'm up north, and I was having a conversation surrounded by the popularity of salsa music, because I love it, right? And that's what I love to play when I play Latin. And I was talking to, believe it was you and Casper and I was, I was sitting there at a Tiki bar in Fort Lauderdale two weeks ago. So it was January 4th. And we were talking about how we feel like the young generation, it was just going to die off if it didn't pick up with the young generation somewhere. And my quote, and it couldn't be more off point was like, the only way that it becomes popular is if Bad Bunny puts out a salsa song and Not only that, and then I said, well, he doesn't have the voice to carry it. And then he drops one about six days later or whatever it was and just proved my whole point completely well, completely wrong that he doesn't have the voice to carry it. But right in the fact that he puts us right to the right to the forefront of Latin music, where it was really buried in the back and really relegated to, you know, our relatives, aunts and uncles, older, you know, the older generation. Mm-hmm, yeah. Well, let me just add one thing here. I agree, I want you to give your take as well because you are La Crema as well, like you're honorary, you know, Puerto Rican here. But to your point, Gary, I think that's also the beauty of, he showcased his musicality on this one, right? Because he doesn't have the strongest voice, but the genius and the self-awareness he brought in also, like the big singers for the background and on the hooks and things like that to really. musically as like a hardcore salsa fan to give you that if that's what you're into, right? And then he like knew to kind of take a step back a little bit because like Alejandro dropped the salsa record as well. It was cool, but it didn't have that same impact because to your point, he doesn't have the vocals to carry it. But I think the genius of Bad Bunny is also in the musicality where he knew when to sort of like be like, hey, I got to give this kind of to somebody else to sing this hook to make this sound bigger, to make it sound more authentically. like a classic salsa record. think there's something about that self-awareness as well that makes him such a great artist. Yeah, we were speaking about that Frankie Ruiz record and I was like, well, yeah, great. It's a new song, but it's a remake of a classic. was like somebody needs to come out with something new, right? And then Bad Bunny did that and did it effectively. It wasn't offensive in any way. Like it sounded great. And then that was like the shocker as the first track on the album. And then as you kind of explored the rest of the album, it was nice to hear versatility and it wasn't all that done. da-da-da-da, over and over and over again. You you had a really nice broadening of Latin genres, which was really refreshing. Not to say that he hasn't done that a little bit in the past here and there, but I felt like it was really done well when listening to this album as compared to others in the past. even without knowing a word, like I could tell that he was trying to, you know, move move this album in a different direction in varying the way he brought the genres to all the songs. So. I'm gonna take this angle from like the DJ perspective, right? Because that's where it's affected me a lot. And I think it's affected a lot of us because... we've like the Bad Bunny, Play Bad Bunny on the phone thing was, was the realest ever. Like I've never gotten, I've never experienced anything like that in my entire career of DJing where so many people were requesting an artist or requesting songs from an artist. And it was like all jobs, like all different types of people, different ages, different backgrounds, white, black, know, Latino, like whatever it was, everybody wanted to listen to Bad Bunny and I think what's brilliant about him and just for people that really love music, like I don't speak Spanish, right? I can understand some Spanish, but in listening to the music, I can just tell like, this is a banger. Like this is a, this is gonna be a club banger. This is gonna be like a, you know, in the car banger. And he just puts out banger after banger after banger after banger. And it's been relentless from even when he was doing like, you know, trap Bad Bunny stuff. Mm-hmm. was still putting out heaters and that is undeniable. Like the man just puts out bangers and everybody likes it. I don't know anybody that doesn't like Bad Bunny necessarily, you know what I mean? Yeah, and again, it's not even in fucking English. And that's what's beautiful about it. Like, we all love Drake, but it's obvious. Like, Drake is pop. He's also hip hop. It's in English. You understand what the hell is going on? It's catchy. It's dancey. But Bad Bunny, again, it's that same consistency, which is already unreal with somebody like a Drake. But then again, you couple it with the idea that it's not even in English. It makes it even crazier the fact that it's been this long of a stretch that people, like you said, of all backgrounds, love it. To stay on the DJ thing, I have two things with that. Shout out to Aldez, he did a party at 626 in Jersey City, like a Bad Bunny night. And the Bad Bunny drops the album on a Sunday. Aldez is very smart, is like, let me get in on the moment and capitalize, as we all should be thinking when things like this happen. Thursday, he pitches a Bad Bunny night and they pull it together in those few days. And I went there and I was having the greatest time ever. And what was so wild to me, because he was he was playing the older Bad Bunny to kind of warm up the night. But it was like 1115. I happen to be in the booth and I look over and it's the fucking you know, phone on the head thing. But it's like play the new Bad Bunny. And he and he like looks at me and he's like, I was going to wait till like midnight. You think I should just start doing I was like, I think these people are just losing their mind to hear this in a club setting right now. Just go in now. Like don't wait till peak hour. We're already there. And you know, of course, he puts it on and literally It's as if these were songs that we've been hearing like all year long and we're all just like they're our favorite songs. That's how it was. And to speak to like DJing when you and I and all three of us met. Remember, like we would have to rush a song came out on a Friday or whatever. We would rush download that song to make sure we had it because we knew people would be requesting it because it would be like the new whatever Katy Perry or whoever the hell it was at the time. And now as the years have gone on, it's like there's no real rush to download the newest song. You kind of have to wait until people pick up on it for it to really hit in the club as like a peak hour record, right? And this was crazy because it was reminiscent of that. was the effect of people were so excited in just a few days since it had been out. They were just craving it so badly and not one song, not two, like every song on the album, basically they wanted to hear in that live setting and go wild to it. And you're seeing people of all ages who... are normally it's like reggaeton, all these things. We're all in their dancing styles like our parents. And that was like a special moment as well. And then on the other side of it for like, you know, the DJ listening branding wise, that's also part of his brilliance. If you notice and you go and look at every album, go look at the music videos, look at his style, he changes for each album. When I say style, mean the way he dresses, the way he presents himself, right? And this album, he's dressing as the everyday man, right? He's wearing the straw hat, he's wearing the flip flops. He's got like an oversized, janky suit on, right? And like a tourist t-shirt. Like he's not the flashy celebrity bad bunny. He's the every man from the country, like the countryside of Puerto Rico, because the music he's referencing, especially like the plan on the bomba, that's the music what we call like the jibaros, right? The people in the country. And he took on this new aesthetic for this album of just being like your average Puerto Rican dude. And that's a part of the whole allure of it as well. It's bigger than just music. There's entire stories, there's narratives, the visuals. He worked with a college professor to give you an entire history on like Puerto Rico as well while you're listening to the music. And then even with this residency he announced, right? He could have done a tour, which is what most artists have done. No, this is his love letter to Puerto Rico. So what does he do? He sets up shop and says from July to September, you can only see me in Puerto Rico. You have to fly to Puerto Rico and see me at the Coliseum. I'm not leaving home, right? Again, this is all like genius world building branding stuff that moving forward 2025 and beyond like anybody who's an artist and wants to take it to that next level beyond like your local market, you have to create some sort of narrative that makes you stand out makes you different. And again, he's like the blueprint for creating this rabid fan base that will literally support you in every single thing that you do. I love that he's doing the residents of Puerto Rico only a couple shows that he's only letting residents Puerto Rico and it's amazing. It's going to be that's going to be an incredible environment. I hope they do broadcast that thing because that's like it's to be must see for sure. Yeah, I think it's like the first three shows or four shows are only for Puerto Rico residents and then there's 21 shows I think total. And like the beauty of it also is like you're doing something deeper, And I see this all the time with artists and DJs. I think the days of us saying, how cool I am on social media are over. I don't think that connects or resonates with people, right? So Bad Bunny doing this is also philanthropic in a way because you look at the data they're projecting this is gonna bring in $100 million in revenue for the island of Puerto Rico this residency, right? So now it's creating jobs for those couple months. It's bringing in tourism to the island, bringing in people are gonna be eating there, staying at the hotels. On top of that, he's working with the tourism board. He's working, I think it was like they announced it today, 18 hotels around the island are partnering with him. So you buy a VIP ticket, it's good for I think three nights, two days in a hotel. and you have the one night with the concert, but then the other days they're doing an exclusive Bad Bunny themed pool party for the people who have those tickets, right? So now we're creating this entire experience that brings in all this money, all this revenue to the island as well. So it's deeper than music. He's also giving back and contributing something. And that's how you develop that like rabid fan base that loves you. And I think that's the blueprint again. If you're an artist moving forward, there has to be some sort of deeper connection. And that's how you get the Bad Bunny effect essentially. I would love to know if this is like mostly his thinking. It's just brilliant, right? You brought up all the branding, all the marketing, and then also giving back to his, his homeland, right? My girlfriend actually got the VIP tickets. So she was telling me about, you know, how part of the package is staying in the hotels and bringing all the tourism and all the money. And that's like a really impressive thing and something you don't necessarily see from megastars all the time who are just collecting checks and making money and buying houses and flying over the place. So it's really impressive, like you said, and and it just adds to the allure, right? It adds to the love of Bad Bunny, not only from Puerto Ricans, but from the entire Latino community and anybody who's a fan of him, you know, so it's just really impressive. I actually went to one of the Bad Bunny shows in Puerto Rico, and it was probably the best show I ever went to. And again, like I don't understand half of what is being said or what's going on. like, it was just really impressive. Like you said, like every minute little detail was taken into account, you know, how you enter where you enter what you walk through, there was like an entire, they like recreated his bedroom. And there was like all these things from his childhood. And then you walk further and there's like rides and food from local vendors. And it was just really, really impressive before you even stepped foot into the arena or the stadium to listen to the show, where he then brought out every artist that you could even ever imagine. And it was unbelievable. Yeah, I'm over that. Also, it's like, think, Gary, you could speak to this. It's the fuck, it's the Disney World effect, right? It's every little detail has been meticulously thought of to give you this experience that you're not only starving for, but willing to spend whatever the hell you have to spend because you're so immersed in something different, right? And. Obviously, we're talking at a gigantic level of a Disney world or a bad bunny. But I think it's like that's the level of detail you have to begin to put into everything you do if you want to stand out from the crowd, right? If we want to make it past some of the difficult economical moments we're going through right now where, you know, clubs aren't making as much as they used to and all these different things, right? It's like you have to get creative and sort of really work for people's, not only money, but just attention these days, you know? And it's like, how can I create an experience? Like back to Al Dez, he didn't just say we're gonna play Bad Bunny music. He went and bought like a bunch of flags out of pocket. He had a gigantic one in the DJ booth. And like, people were literally running up to the booth and like, hey, do you guys have any flags left? Do you guys have any flags left? Like it was something different and exciting. And that's just a small little thing right there, right? That he whipped together in a couple of days, but. Again, that added to the experience and you watch the like recap video and you see a sea of people waving flags in there. like, dude, I can't believe I missed out on that party, right? And that adds that FOMO rather than just like, all right, I showed up and plugged my laptop in and played some music again. Like it's something different. And that's why, again, Bad Bunny is light years ahead of any current artist. And in my opinion, is well surpassing the people that we would put on that Mount Rushmore. I have a question because maybe I'm not so good with pop culture. So correct me if I'm wrong, but like when the Bad Bunny Kardashian connection happened, you know, a couple of years ago, there was some pretty negative kickback on that. Was there not? Especially from the Puerto Rican community. And then especially because there were some some culture, there were some political things going on down there that I felt like he didn't speak to. So a combination of those two things happening at that time. Do you think that there was a hard pivot to creating what we're kind of seeing now? And not saying that he's only doing it to improve his image, but maybe that was a rude awakening in, maybe I'm not paying attention to the people I need to pay attention to. Yeah, so there was a lot of backlash. think that's super accurate. I think there was a lot of criticism. There was a lot of people who sort of felt like the person they fell in love with now is somebody completely different, right? And I think it's like the idea of somebody becoming Hollywood almost, right? And because his whole thing from the start was like, I'm authentically me. I wear weird clothes. I wear dresses. I don't care. I'm... unapologetically Puerto Rican. I'm, you know, all these different things. And that is the brand he built. And that's why people loved him. And then you go into a relationship with arguably the polar opposite of that, like the fakest human beings you could possibly imagine, imagine both physically brand wise, fame wise, every single thing about it, right, is like counter to what he stood for. But I think, you know, obviously, I'm sure he heard the chatter. There's no way he didn't. Right. And I think That is sort of what also is like the cherry on top for this album because it's actually a hero's journey essentially, right? And like the hero's journey is like the basis of every great film you've ever watched in your life, like the Star Wars, like Luke Skywalker leaving home, fighting and then returning home type of thing, right? Now this is where we get deeper into the lyrics and stuff. The lyrics of the album is a person who is now 30. who's made all of his dreams come true, has lived life, has gone through it and recognized what was actually important in this life and recognized that the fame, the money, the celebrity was taking him away from all that he truly loved and who he was as a person, right? And that's what this album reflects on lyrically and also musically going back to old traditional Puerto Rican music that's not necessarily like culturally popular right now. That is what also adds to this entire story and this body of work making it so special. And I think that it's because he started out so human, people forgive him because we all lose ourselves in stuff as well, right? So it's almost like it's a bigger celebration on the island because it's like, man, like he lost himself, but he still found his way back home, right? Like he redeemed himself by not forgetting his roots. Like the person we love is still there type of thing. And so I think all of this narrative aside from the music being great, aside from, you know, phenomenally. rolling it all out. It's also like the real life aspect of it timing wise. I think that's like the magic that you can't necessarily plan on too much. But yeah, I think that that is a part of this whole story as well. One thing that really stood out for me for especially when this album released was listening to you and Mick Rican and Tone Setta and my girlfriend and all the people who I know are really connected to Bad Bunny and his music like speak so highly of it and Mick Rican was like I shed tears because like I just connected and felt what he was saying on this album so closely and so much and again like That part of it sucks for me who doesn't necessarily understand the lyrics and I can't really understand what he's truly saying. But in listening to it, I can still feel that. You can feel the emotion. You can feel like his connectedness to his island and to the music and what he's putting out there and how much he loves it. And like when someone can't understand you in words, but you can feel it in the way that they say things or, you know, the emotion or how you see them perform. It's crazy that I can feel those things too. It's beyond just the music, you know? And that's just really impressive and something that really stood out to me. Yeah, think that might, quite honestly, think from a cultural perspective, it's incredibly impressive, but I think that unbiasedly, that might be the most impressive part is the fact that emotion was somehow conveyed just through the music in itself, right? And that's a really difficult thing to do. And I think what I would compare it to, both of you guys, know your parents were super into music. And I'm sure you guys have records, regardless of genre, that you hear it and it brings you back to a certain time period with them, right? That reminds you of them sharing one of their favorite songs with you and like, maybe as a kid you didn't fully appreciate it and now you're just like, nah, think dad was right, this was a banger. And for us, like I cried just hearing a horn get introduced in that salsa rec for Bad Bunny because it brought me back to being a kid. in the backseat of my parents' car and them playing salsa records, them playing Frankie Ruiz and Mark Anthony and beyond all that stuff. And at the time not appreciating it and then now as an adult recognizing that's so much a part of me and where I come from. And Bad Bunny just gave us this gift of reconnecting us to our ancestry. And that's the deeper connection to it. But I think that's why somebody like McCree, can we talk? We got so nostalgic, aside from the lyrics. It just brings us back to like our roots and this nostalgia of a time period that really meant so much to us. It's crazy, like we talk about like goosebumps, right? Or we talk about it. If music can invoke some sort of emotion, generally, it's good music, right? No matter the genre, no matter the era, it's good music. Is there anything else we want to cover on this topic before I ask the question again? You know, the only thing I would throw out into the atmosphere that I think from a business perspective is going to be interesting. Does this residency idea become more of a norm? Because the one thing I've heard from a lot of artists being in the industry is they lose money touring unless you are the top tier bringing in half a billion dollars on a tour like Bad Bunny. It's expensive to tour, especially with gas prices, food prices, hotel costs, if you have a driver, all these different things that go into it. A lot of times they're losing money or barely breaking even, and they've been on the road for two months or whatever it is, Whereas with this, you can set up shop in one place, partner with hotels, partner with sponsors, and make money that way, and have people buy these experiences, which I think people are already starving for something outside of the norm. And that way everybody's winning. Like to your point with your girlfriend, you're not only going to a Bad Bunny concert, you're going on a vacation to Puerto Rico, you're gonna have a once in a lifetime experience of them curating a weekend at this hotel that is Bad Bunny themed, right? And if you're a Bad Bunny fan, that's like the ultimate thing to be around other Bad Bunny fans. And so that's better than us going to the garden one night and then driving straight back home, right? And he's gonna make more money because he's not traveling. He doesn't have those extra expenses as well. The sponsorship deals, again, they're gonna come into play there, because it's all just in one exact place. I think that there could be an argument that this could become more of a normal thing for artists rather than doing these tours. It's like we start going to them now for more of an experiential thing rather than just a one night only concert. This is interesting that it took this long to get into the pop space because this has been something in the jam band space for a long time. You know, if you look up the Allman, if you look up the Allman brothers at the beacon, they used to do, you know, 20, 25 show runs. Bruce Springsteen at Giant Stadium. think his longest was 12 show run. Grateful Dead at Giant Stadium. They used to do eight, nine show runs. You know, I went out for the dead 50th in Chicago and they purposely placed it in Chicago so people from both sides, from both coasts could meet. Nobody was too far away, right? And then when you got that Billy Joel's another one, Fish Every Year's another one. And then like, The Grateful Dead 50th, they had a whole museum that was dedicated to that. So you got to go do that during the day. Then there were different bands that were popped up. Then they had their Shake Down Street. So it was an entire weekend experience where no one moment was lost. You were always involved in the band, right? And this has just been something that's been very popular in the jam band space. And I'm really happy to see it kind of cross over into the pop space because they are some of my most fond memories of any kind of live music was when you just get fully enveloped in it. Right. and I think that this is just the norm now. Look at the sphere, right? You had you to do a run. and you had the Eagles do a run and the debt are gonna go do in their second run this summer. And to your point, the fact that these old guys don't have to go and travel around and spend all the money that they're making on that travel portion of the tour, sure, they're making a ton of money, don't get me wrong. But to park it in one city and then be able to build experiences around it is huge. Like I know the last year did, they had a whole indoor. They shut down like a bunch of the convention halls and they were able to do shows in there like pop-up shows in there and they just do the sell their merch in there and do these experiences like think relics did something and like it just it's just the way things are going everybody wants an experience we sound like a broken record on this podcast, but that is where entertainment is right now Yeah, even Diplo. spend money on that, right? Like an experience of vacation a weekend, then go out to the local bar for four Saturdays in a row and probably spend the same amount of money and have a way better time and a way better experience going away one weekend rather than four Saturday nights, let's say. Absolutely. And even on a smaller scale to get people's brains going, Diplo did something like he did a run club, right? Where he did a couple different ones around the country. You do a whatever, however long the run is, three miles. And then after the run, there's like an after party and him and Vice, I think, were DJing. So even things like that where it's like, you're now creating this experience of like, I have my Saturday planned, right? And like, I'm gonna go on a run, I'm gonna probably meet a bunch of people, because it's a run club and people socialize at those things. And then after party outside in this like, you know, outside in some park somewhere. And then I don't know what the setup was there, but I'm sure as they expand it, it's like, oh, it could have vendors, could have this, it could have that, right? Like all these potential opportunities to turn it into something more than just a bunch of random people standing together. And it's like, yeah, hell yeah, that's an amazing experience. I did a run club and then also I got to see Diplo DJ, it's like. That's a very different thing and I would be far happier to pay money for that than like a night in a dark club somewhere doing the same exact thing over and over again. Yeah. This is where we're going, right? And we just had a call with our entire team yesterday, trying to kind of push our team to try to think outside the box. Like, what cool things can we do here in our home market that are along these same similar lines, right? And you guys listening should kind of think the same way. What can I do that is non-traditional that might be a really good idea and the first time anyone's ever done something like that in your market? If you're the first to market, sometimes you can grab the entire market and now you have this thing on lock. You could throw once a quarter, once a month, whatever. And you were the first and people had a great time and had a great experience are going to keep coming back. And I, yeah. you're passionate about. I think that's the key here. know, and I talked about doing a cooking show while DJing so many years ago, and we both looked at each other and thought, that won't work, and now it's all over the fucking place. But we were just thinking about, all right, Cream, you're really passionate about cooking, it'd be fun just to cook a meal and DJ in the kitchen, right? And like, gonna we were gonna cook a meal and then like play a song because it related to the to the meal somehow Terrible idea but there was like fun ideas that that things that things did wind up. There are show there are YouTube channels that are dedicated to just doing that at this point with hundreds of thousands of viewers. And it's just find those things like I'm jealous that Diplo did the did the run club, you know, like, but, know, I follow I follow him while he's doing it. I follow the playlist. And like because you just find the things you're passionate about and then go all in on it. Wait, Gary, I have a question. My bad, Jerome, go ahead. No, I was just gonna ask, I was gonna ask you like, you do five and 10 Ks and stuff at Disney. Like, do they have any type of experience at the end of those runs? Is this an opportunity? There's a great, mean, there's a, no, that's where the, so I got done with my 10K, the one I was running for time in November, and I got done, the sun was just coming up, and the DJ was playing me and Cream's record when I got there, and I was like shocked. And it's like a big, it's a big stage, a big production, like it's it's like a big stage at like a, or it's like a stage at like a side stage at a festival. And then they have like, You know, they do beers and they have all the different, you know, stations that you could buy stuff at and hang out. And there's food, bunch of food trucks and like, it's a whole experience at the end of that. That's a, that's a whole weekend. do a great job. It's G, so you have to have, dude, I went to a run club in Jersey City and like they didn't have anything planned after, but I'm talking to people like, you're gonna go to brunch at this place, at this place. Like nobody wants to go home after they just had like that dopamine hit of meeting a bunch of people and like you're outside, you're already like out of the house, you're energized. So like it makes sense to do that. And the last thing I would say on it is you can't do this type of thing every week, cause then it gets old. But the beauty of it is it has the potential to make the same amount of money for you as if you did multiple DJ gigs, right? Because when you talk about venue partnerships and you could probably start doing hard tickets at that point if you can actually guarantee people out there like a running club can, and then talk about sponsorships, we're talking about potentially a few grand that would have taken you a couple gigs to make and you can do it in one shot. And maybe that, to your point when we talk about the future, maybe that is the future. Less gigs. but like these more immersive gigs that yield a far better return for the customer as well as you when it comes to profit. Love it. It's interesting, things are changing and it's just interesting to see sort of what's working. So I think like, just to sort of round this out on the Bad Bunny thing, even if you're not a fan of Bad Bunny, you need to see and watch what he's doing, not just as a musician, but from a brand perspective, from a marketing perspective, from an experience perspective, what can you take away even if you don't like the music? What can you take away from what he's been ridiculously successful with? you know, how can you use what he's doing in your brand or implement it into your business and really think about that. And then just like, is Bad Bunny the greatest artist of all time? Maybe, he could be. I'm gonna say that. He's in the conversation easily at this point, I'd say. Yeah, think that's a fair sort of state with that most of us can agree on. He's most definitely a part of the conversation. Love it. All right. Topic two. We got another another very near and dear artist that we're going to get into here. So Avicii. The Avicii documentary came out on Netflix. I know there were a couple other documentaries that were, you know, sort of dug into his life and his journey and his unfortunate passing. But for me, we could all sort of get into how Avicii affected our careers and each of us. But for me, he's one of the most influential musicians in my life, like ever, ever, because he's one of the reasons why I got into dance music. Like I was a hip hop guy and then Avicii's music, among some other artists, but Avicii's music really crossed me over into dance music and I really never turned back. And I think he crossed over a lot of people into dance music and his... Mm-hmm. his lasting influence will be that he was the reason why many people became fans of dance music. So, I don't really have a question, but let's just kind of open it up and like, if you guys want to talk about Avicii and how he, you know, affected you and... I'll kind of start us off here because I was a fan of house music since probably 95, 96, 96 I would say when I first started DJing. Like I was heavy into, I was obsessed with the New York City club scene and the DJs who played that scene. So the Danny Taneglu, the Jonathan Peters, the Victor Calderon's guys like that. Then as my interest grown, I got into Tiesto and Tiesto was pretty, a world renowned DJ. He still wasn't hitting non DJ fans in the States. He was getting paid his 40 grand to DJ gig at the Roxy and at the at the clubs that he was playing at the time. But then he grew into doing and we talked about this a little bit. Then he did the Greece Olympics. He DJed the Greek Olympics, which was in 2004, which was incredible to see as a DJ at the time. That was incredible to see. was like, all right. Like the DJ culture is crossing over a little bit. But I'm like, well, but then again, it's still in Europe and it's still a very European thing. So having all of this fandom and having it be very much on the European side of things was always sucked because I'd always play house music in my sets, especially even in the bars that I was playing at because I loved it so much. Well then along comes Evice and Levels and Seek Bromance even and all of a sudden a lot of the people that were not listening to house music started to listen to house music and it started to kind of open the door for other artists like, especially, and probably most importantly, Calvin Harris, I feel like Calvin Harris' success is not because of Avicii, but I feel like he opened the door for Calvin Harris to make these bigger dance pop records. The time frames around the same time. but I just feel like really, Avicii really did influence, I think, America's ear into house music. Yeah, yeah, think when I think back about that time period, I always say this to people. think we were really fortunate because we were the right age when a sort of moment in music history happened. The same way people who were around New York City during the CBGBs days in like the 80s, know, and the hair metal scene of the 80s, you know, and then Seattle for the grunge stuff. you know, for, for me, look, I'm like, Avicii was like our Nirvana basically, you know, we were, we were guys in our, our, our twenties and the, you know, the right age to be going out like that. And, and, you know, we got to really experience this movement that happened in real time. And, you know, I even, for me, like thinking about how big of a deal it was when EDC came to New York for the first time. Right. And that was like, It didn't matter if you were into EDM or not. Everybody was just so curious about like, what is this thing? You know? and that was when Avicii was like, you know, the one of the bigger names out there. but yeah, I think for me, I was always into like, you know, I grew up in the backseat of my mom's car hearing freestyle and things like that. as a kid, I got into Tiesto when I was, a bit younger, but I think what sort of the bug that bit me that I was like, I have to be a part of this. Um, was Skrillex and then it was Avicii like right from there for me. Um, so I think, yeah, to, kind of, you know, the, the point is you introduced it, Cream. It's like, you think about these artists that really had not only effect in effect on your taste, but I think for, for us, like the trajectory of where our lives have gone, it's kind of crazy to think about it, but I, I really would have to say like somebody like Avicii is like the reason why I'm here on this path that I'm doing right now. You know, that inspiration, that feeling that his music gave me and sort of watching him sort of ascend in real time, you know, really like made me again, I got bit by that bug and like believed that maybe I could do something like that. Yeah. I was playing those big room. I was playing big room, you know, in New York City. And when you like were not supposed to be playing big room in New York City and somebody, a decision maker heard me. because I had been playing house music for so long at that point, I had it really well, you know, knitted into my set nicely. And they came up and it gave me my first big jerk. I did everything backwards. I, you know, I broke in New York and then. And then that gave me my first real nightclub break in Jersey. And that's where me and cream met. and that's when that whole EDM mainstage sounds was, you know, at its peak. and gosh, that the, like those rooms were just the most fun. And that was just the most fun time to be a DJ because everybody was into all of those vocals. Somebody just did like a one minute, I think Slav sent it to us, came right in the local one minute recap. era EDM. And it was all kind of intertwined with all the different vocals. you just kind of forget how many vocals were so big at the time. And everybody would always sing all those tracks. We, we, made us, we all felt like Avicii when we played in Avicii record. That's the thing about, right? Like I would play a dive bar in Morristown, but like the levels came on. It was like, you thought you were main stage, you know, at freaking Tomorrowland or something like that. Like it felt like that because that's the reaction people were giving. It was, it was so big. People screaming, people, you know, like singing all the words, jumping up and down the floor, which I remember the floor at Sona 13. shaking one time when I played Swedish house mafia Greyhound, you know what saying? Like, and that's in great, like I thought I was there. I thought I was on the main stage. That's what it felt like at the time, you know? So it's like, yeah, that's why we, I think we look at these, this time period and these artists and it's like, you know, that's why it's so special to us because it really, we really were a part of something during that time period, even if it was in a small way. We talk a lot about DJs on the show, which is, know, Jersey Shore Club, Beach Club, also Surf Club. I got to see Avicii two times at Surf Club, which was kind of before he blew as a major artist. And I just remember hearing levels and seeing the reaction and the feeling that that song brought out of people. And like we were talking before about Bad Bunny and emotions and like Avicii's levels brought out so much emotion in people. And it was just like joy and happiness and excitement. And that doesn't always happen. That melody, that song is one of the most influential songs of my time. Like I said, how it affected me, like Avicii was the melody master. And you saw it in the documentary of just how he could come up with these like emotional melodies that had a lot of feeling and. it's not easy to do that and he did it with ease and I think that was one of the main reasons why he was so successful but yeah man like feeling and hearing levels for the first time or like when it was really popular was one of the best feelings ever and people still go get crazy when they hear it in 2025 which is insane he's broken back into the top 200 on like many different charts again, since the documentary came out. And it's just, the young generation is always gonna find it. They'll always find Avicii, but like, I feel like this really puts it back in the forefront where you're gonna be able to, even if we have kept Avicii in our sets, you're gonna be able to really go hard again and throw him into your peak hour. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Do either of you, if you were touring top of the top artists, do you think you would be able to make a 180 pivot and say, I'm gonna do country, I'm gonna do bluegrass, I'm gonna bring out live musicians at Ultra Music Festival. Do either of you think you would ever have the balls to even consider doing something like that? Because I don't. Live? Yeah. jerk reaction is if I believe in it, you know, I've been really successful in what I've done and I feel like, I don't know if he's ever, if he ever felt like he was like the taste maker or he was a taste maker, but if you do have that confidence where, know what, hey, I've been successful in what I've done already. I believe in kind of my melody making and my song making and song creation. Can we bring something different to the table? I mean, it, it wound up, it was a day set, right? Went that. Yeah, it was daytime. Yeah. I felt like, you know, that to have the balls to do that is crazy because that that ultra that ultra stage is tough. Yeah. Yeah. don't know, man. think maybe the current version of me right now, but like, don't, you know, I can't even place myself. Yeah, no, no, definitely not. I would have been way too scared to do it on that stage, you know, at that place and knowing what was the expectation. Yeah, exactly. I would have done it on like a smaller, you know, personal show, not ultra, you know, especially like during that time period. Like Ultra was everything, right? That was like people's entire year. If you were a fan or an artist was based around Miami and Ultra, you know, and and he was one of the main draws of that festival. So, yeah, I think I probably would have maybe played some of the records like a normal DJ, but like maybe a live set. Now there's no no shot. I don't think I would have I would have had the balls to do that. I It's really interesting how someone can go completely a different direction and try something, go out on a limb and it fails. And then over the course of a couple of weeks or a month or it completely flips and people become fans of it. I don't know. I'm trying to think of something else you could compare that to. Well, did it, the performance happened and then the album dropped a few weeks later? Is that correct? I think it was a it was in association like they kind of around the right right around the same time. I don't know the exact timeline. And I don't think the album, I think the album at first, people were not like jumping out the window about it either though. I think that was part of it too, where even after the performance, when people heard the songs, they were kind of like, what the hell is this still? But I can't think of an example, but I think it does speak to, I think great anything will eventually find its home. And. For some people, for some things it takes longer than others. Sometimes you're just too far ahead. And we've seen it with certain artists where they don't find success until later in their life or until they're well after they're gone. I think he's lucky that it maybe only took a few weeks or a month or so for people to warm up to that sound. But I think it just speaks to the greatness of the art that... eventually it's like you just can't deny it. You know what I mean? Like eventually it's just so good that like you it's like it's like any like pop song at first you hear it and like, this is terrible. It's just so corny. And then eventually it's like in your ear. It's like a song you find yourself singing. It's like it's just good. I can't get away from the fact that it's just a really well written, a really well made piece of art. But yeah, I mean, that was like that's so early on the country wave, too. It's just it's wild to think about it when you really. break it down like where we were musically during that time period and like the balls that it took to make that part of a turn during that time period. Isn't Wake Me Up his most streamed or listened to track? I think it is. Think about that. We just talked about the influence of levels and it's not even his most streamed or played song. I think it's not even in his top five. Like across all platforms, it's not even in his top five, which is crazy. Which shows you the influence that it had on the club culture, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I thought that, that's still to this day, as much as we just said that, I still think Waking Me Up is underrated because every time I hear it, I'm like, yo, this is such a good record. And it was beaten to death when it was on radio. And hearing it like in that documentary, was like, dude, I forgot just how good this song is because I rarely play it out. I haven't heard anybody play it out in a long time. Levels you still hear all the time. But that one, like this is just a beautiful record. Like the musicianship, the song, the vocals on it from Aloe Blacc. Everything about it is just so good. You forget just how special of a record that was. It's the best feeling when you like, refined a love for a song, like you said, you know, especially when when radio was really big, right? Radio would just beat the crap out of all the hits where it's like, I don't want to hear this ever again. It's on 10 times when I'm in the car in 45 minutes. I know right now that's not really a thing, but we still get songs that are just kind of rammed down our throat and we get sick of them. And then You kind of put it on the back burner and six months, a year, two years later, you hear it again and it kind of brings you right back to when you first fell in love with that song. what a great feeling. Yeah. And mean, and one thing I think like piggybacking off of that, watching the documentary and watching, like the making of, waking me up on that album, I didn't realize it was the guitar player from Incubus that was on that, on those songs. And, and to, and like, when you watch the people that were collabing with Avicii during that time, I think what a lot of people don't recognize is like this current, you know, where we are in 2025, people have a wide array of musical tastes, right? People are pretty open for the most part. during that time period, was still kind of like you were into this or you were into that type of thing, right? You were, people had, and there was a lot of stigma around EDM and it sort of being corny to a degree. And it was like, if you liked hip hop, you hated EDM, right? And you would make fun of EDM type of thing. if you were, know, a DJ playing EDM, like, you rarely ever played any hip hop records type of thing, you know? And to me, what speaks to that, you see people like Wyclef and, know, Chris Martin from Coldplay and all these like, incredible diverse musicians all coming to Avicii and like, you know, like giving him his flowers during that time period. think that just speaks to he was so far beyond the typical DJ producer. He was just like a generational musical talent that just happened to get big making electronic dance music. influential musicians. music. Whatever he wanted to make would have been hits. Whatever he wanted to make. influential musicians are people that go out and they take those chances and then they are recognized by other musicians that aren't within their circle and then are accepted in those circles. And that's how you know that somebody is a special, special talent. Like you said, when you attract people like a Wyclef and you attract people like Chris Martin, that's a huge deal. You know, it's... It transcends, like, rational music stuff, you know? Right. Right. I want to share a little like personal thing when it comes to Avicii and some of his music. So like I mentioned earlier, he was one of the reasons why I became a DJ and got into dance music. And then my dad and Avicii passed away within months around the same time. And I just feel really connected to him because of it, you know, the song Heaven with Chris Martin is like one of the most like heartfelt songs for me. It like means a lot to me to a point where This summer, was my last song that I played at the Azur party on the rooftop. It was just like the perfect ending to a really cool experience and set for me. And then also the the remembrance track that they came out with without you. Like I hear those two songs, especially like I'm feeling really down about my dad or whatever. Like I go and listen to that because it just makes me like really, really happy. And I will just forever associate Avicii and my dad because of that. And it's just like he just means a lot to me as an artist. So. Yeah, think it speaks to like, this is far deeper than like the stereotype of being in a club raging and all these different things. I think what music can be for people is what you say, it can be that comforting feeling, right? It can be that thing that you go to when you are in a reminiscent mood or whatever and make you feel something, whether it's Bad Bunny, whether it's Avicii, like, I think the great art makes you feel something, you And I think that's rare in today's day and age of algorithms and people chasing hits and all these different things. That's what made that time period so special, or that's what makes artists like a bad bunny so special, is because they're tapping into that real human emotion. know, they're not, to our point, Avicii wasn't chasing the same recycled hit over and over again. He was challenging himself as a musician, as an artist, to grow and try new things. and connect in various ways. You know, because even lyrically, like a lot of those, like they went over my head at the time, but watching that documentary, he was expressing real stuff, like just like we're talking about right now. Like when you, when you like, Allah Black, I think was reminiscing on like SOS and like hearing it through the lens of somebody who took their own life. Now he was like, this was Avicii's like cry for help almost, you know, and, and you recognize like the power of that and it's really somebody just putting their heart on display for the world. And I think it's no wonder why all of us have a connection to it that is an emotional one that goes beyond just like the party aspect, but at the human aspect of it, right? And there's so many times like late night, I've been feeling down driving from somewhere and I'm just listening to like Avicii's, like one of his albums, you know, and it touches me because there is that emotional part about it as well, man. And it's... Yeah, I don't know. I think there's just something so special about that honesty, right? And there's very few honest artists, you know? And I think even the tragedy of his story to a degree is almost somebody who is too honest and too pure in his art for the industry that he was a part of. This is why we love music. This is why we do what we do, right? Like these conversations just sort of kind of expressing what we're passionate about and recognizing other artists and great artists and passionate artists and like this conversation has been awesome for me because we don't do that. Like this is a little different format from what we normally do. So this was cool. I'm into this. We don't have to do something else like this, Gary, down the line. Definitely. Glad this was an idea to throw out there and get away from our usual teaching schtick. Yeah, anything else we want to like, I mean, we anything else we want to cover? know I anything else we want to cover before we move on. I mean, if you want to reel it in to the normal business side of stuff, this is the effect you want to have on people, right? This is longevity, right? If I have to be the business guy that puts a price tag on emotion or whatever for success, like, This is what you should be chasing. I think a lot of people are chasing the wrong things and that's why they're here today, gone tomorrow, if they're lucky enough to even get an opportunity. And I think in terms of creating a long-term career, there has to be some sort of emotional aspect to what you do. Or even as a DJ, I think if you are in this just for the free drinks, the girls and the money, you're not going to last very long in this industry. You're not going to be able to survive the roller coaster ride of it all. There has to be that nerdy music kid inside of you that is just dying to play these songs on a loud system somewhere, right? And is dying to dig for songs and has this emotional reaction when you press play on one of these records and loves the feel of a mixer and all these different things. And I think, as the older guys here in... the room, so to speak. It's why we've been able to do what we do for so long, because there is a genuine connection and love for music outside of the business aspect of it. And that allows us to make it through all the BS that comes along with everything. But I think it's also why we've all seen peers of ours sort of drop off by the wayside or fall short on their own goals, because they got into it for the wrong reasons. Perfect. Love it. I think it's a great way to finish up this conversation. Dramas, we love you. Anything you would like, follow Dramas at DJDramas. Check out his podcast, Life as a Gringo. What else would you like to promote here? I'll be throwing my birthday party, Con Fuego, we're getting together doing a party January 25th, Porta in Jersey City. And yeah, man, I'm working on some new music and stuff too. So I got some originals down the pipeline. As much as I try to push music away, it just keeps on finding its way back to me. So I'm done fighting it. So yeah, bunch of stuff, I'm all in on the music stuff. yeah, I'm always here to, you know. help anybody out any way I can, so feel free to hit me up. If you ever need any advice or pick somebody's brain, I got you. Give Dramos a follow. He's great, very entertaining follow from day to day. So I love when the coffee hits and you start to go. Yeah. It gets a little wild, but yeah, we're here for the ride. Dramas, we love you, man. Always love our conversations. Appreciate you. And thank you guys for listening to this episode. We will check you guys out next week. Peace out. Okay, peace. Man,