Phones Are Ruining Nightlife 🤳

On this episode of the Grow My DJ Business, Cream & GaryW discuss:

• Are cell phones good or bad for nightlife? 
• Do artists want fans recording them for virality? 
• How DJs can take cues if no one is dancing in the crowd.
• Music vs. Production. What's more important for fans?
• Should venues enact a No Cell Phone Policy? 
• Simplifying creative processes can lead to better productivity. How to do it.

Chapters

• 2:52 DJing at Trio, Charleston is Unmatched
• 2:53 When The Staff Cares, The Experience Is Better
• 9:04 Audience Engagement Is Essential for DJs
• 12:00 The Shift in Concert Culture: Recording vs. Experiencing
• 15:06 The Dopamine Effect: Social Media and Live Events
• 18:59 Trends in Music: Following vs. Innovating
• 21:58 The Role of Production in Modern DJ Shows
• 36:14 The Mixed Experience of Live Shows
• 39:00 DJ Popularity: What's the Sweet Spot
• 42:24 Venues and Phone Policies
• 44:44 The Catch-22 of Going Viral
• 49:40 Will Venues Ban Cell Phones?
• 54:04 How to Simplify Creative Processes
• 1:01:00 Investing in Your Music Career

Transcript

0:01

All right, what's up guys? Welcome to the hundred and sixty fifth episode of the Grow My DJ Business podcast brought to you by the Grow My DJ Business Discord, Digital Music Pool and Pyrrhoid Production Academy. My name is Kareem. Gary W here. Gary, you survived a hurricane. We didn't have our podcast last week. We had, we actually had a guest planned and everything and had to cancel because I think this was the hardest you ever got hit. No? Yeah, since I've been here, it's definitely the hardest we've been hit. It's spoke to lot of friends in the area. Depending on where you were, it was a little different. You know, if you were just even 10 minutes away, 15 minutes away, my sister got hit a little different than I did. She's up on more of a hill, like the only hill in the damn area. I sit kind of lower, so I don't know. And I'm in between some taller houses, so I get it gets kind of. deflected off of the housing around me. And I sit back off the golf course a little bit in like a doomed area. So I actually was able to go under my Lenai and sit and like watch as like, it was like 80 to a hundred mile an hour gusts at times. dunes definitely help you and protect your house a bit. Yeah, so I'm lucky and I have a lot of heavy palms and vegetation around my enclosure. Nobody knows what enclosure is just most Florida houses have them for know bug purposes and things like that. Okay, snake snakes and all that great stuff. But Yeah, so like, you know, I'm pretty protected back there. And even with the heavy palms, that definitely, definitely, definitely helps. None of my screens got blown out, which is crazy with the winds. But the tornadoes, that's the crazy stuff that you forget that that happens before hurricanes. Or if you haven't really lived through them, that does occur during hurricanes. But they said this was the second most ever in US history, the amount of hurricanes prior to the Yeah, that's crazy. to the hurricanes are crazy, but all good here. All good here. Send in thoughts out to our buddy Danny, who his house is affected greatly and, and fresh also in their families. there, those are local DJs out in Tampa that are friends, friends of ours. So Yeah, like back to back hurricanes for the Tampa St. Pete crew. So shout to all those guys. everybody's good down there. I know it's going to take a bit to get back to where you guys were, but come back stronger than ever for sure. Yeah, well, it cooled us off down here, so it's been cool now the last couple days, so it's been all right. But in that time, you had a trip to Charlotte. Got to play Trio again. my third time, second time there. I'd gone out a couple of times to hang with Angelo, check out the space and for breakaway, but this was the second time I was booked there. I mean, it was awesome. It was awesome the first time. I felt even more comfortable this time around, sort of just knowing how I was gonna play the room. I think I've grown a lot as a DJ and an artist between the first time and the second time I was there. And, you know, jumping up on the stage and being on the mic and all the production that goes into that was sort of more second nature to me this time around than the first time. But it was awesome, man. I got to play with UFOso. So Greg came down and played with me like old times. And it was great. He knows how I play and he got to show off his stuff a little bit and had a great crowd. It was packed in there early. So it was fun, man. It was awesome. Fun to hang with Angelo. Always great to talk to Eric, who's the owner, and got to see some of his new concepts and hear more about them. actually, we were there the grand opening weekend for his cocktail lounge that just opened. So it was cool to get over there, try some super unique and weird cocktails, but they were great. that's kind of how they're that's the route they've gone there. Yeah, it's a sort of cocktails all inspired by different cities. So the menu each page is it kind of pays homage to a different city and there's a cocktail with a twist, right? So like New York is sort of like, it was sort of like almost like an old fashioned, but it was definitely like not, you know? So it's a cool concept. think musically it's something always important to him. They're doing more like jazz house. And Angelo has been making edits with just like popular vocals over the top. So it's like this cool jazz house vibe with vocals that are familiar. So just like everything else Eric does, it's, you know, music focused and a little unique and done the right way. So. Nice. All right. That sounds great. Yeah, man, it was refreshing to just go to a place that, you know, like Trio's the top of the top for me, as far as places that I play, when it comes to everything, you know? The hospitality is better than any other place. You know what I realized this time around? Their entire staff just really fucking loves EDM, you know? They love the music. And when your staff loves the music, like, it just creates... They're happy to be there. They're excited to hear DJs. And granted, they're bringing some very big artists through there. But still, like, they're excited to hear me play, and they're excited to hear Greg play. And they're also excited when Deadmau5 plays there. like, it's just a really cool culture of EDM that's sort of happening over there. So. it helps in any venue when the bartenders are into the music and when they're invested. sometimes I think as a DJ, maybe we can lose sight of that, especially as bookers and like maybe a bartender gets on like, I didn't really like that DJ that much last night. And obviously when that happens, you have a lot of different opinions happening behind the bar, but at least it shows that they're listening and that they care about it, right? on the other end of that when like you don't hear much out of the bartenders and they're just there to show up and you know do their job and they might not be into the spectacle of the party. I feel like that might they could be a great bartender but that still doesn't add to the parties. I know it's not their job but it's part of the showmanship especially in a place that's booking DJs that has nightlife that is trying to put on a good party and a good face you know. feel like it's just it's something that's overlooked sometimes we've gone in depth about that in previous episodes but it helps when the entire staff is really involved in what's happening throughout the night and and Eric's places they all like he hires really well he hires he hires people that are passionate about the product that he puts out and it's easy to be passionate about the product that he puts out because he puts out a good product so you know that's any of the owners or managers out there that are listening to this. If you have staff that's not really passionate about what you guys are doing, maybe find out what you can be doing differently to get people invigorated and get your staff really into what's going on. It really helps with getting people back in the door and having repeat customers, which is something that everybody needs to be doing right now. Yeah, I I think towards our country music forward venue, Wild Moose here in Hoboken in Jersey, the staff there generally all love country music, you know, like, and that's what they play there. And they are getting up on the bar and they're singing and they're dancing and they're enjoying themselves. And that that enthusiasm is infectious for the customer, you know. So it doesn't have to just be for EDM. It could be any party, you know, when you have people that are a working event that they really care about. just makes such a difference. Yeah, it does. Big time. So, you know, normally Gary and I kind of come up with three topics that we sort of talk about. I think today we might just dig super deep on one topic because it's something that we've sort of been seeing here in the dance music space for an extended period of time, but I think more recently we're seeing artists really talk about it and make videos about it. And you and I were talking about Bob Sinclair and a video that he posted about him playing a show in Greece. and he was ripping through, you know, a bunch of different sub genres of music, including all of his previous hits and like nobody was dancing and they were just videoing him and he was like super defeated after his show. I know that like in following him and looking through his socials, like he's a melodramatic, like he'll sell it, like, you know what I mean? He's selling it on on on his his tick tock on his reels or whatever it might be. But I think the message there was legit. think he really did. You know, he did not enjoy the fact that he just went up there and it was just all cameras the whole time. And then he was like hoping that the cameras would drop so so that people would then start to party. So he was testing out all of this different, like you said, all of these different genres, and then he was like, all right, well, you know, I'm trying to catch a vibe in this place, and it's just cameras the entire time. And then he's like, I play the biggest songs, and still nobody dances, which I'm thinking in my head, like, if you're gonna play the biggest song, that's when people are gonna record, but it's not like, but it's not like those songs. Neither of those came out even within the last 10 years. Those are like 15 years old, those songs. They're old. they those were out when I was in like my prime of clubbing. like. Yeah, so tell people what the songs are because we might have brought up Bombs and Claire and people might not even know who that is. Right, like World Hold On and the other one was Love Generation, I believe, right? Love Generation was this really infectious song for the people that don't know. It was this really infectious song when it came out because it started with that like acoustic strum, which was super different. This was pre-Avicii, pre-what did he have, like Hey Brother and the other track Avicii did. was one of those songs where people could just hum the melody and like that happened at his shows kind of thing. It was one of those tracks. first time I heard it out was down in Miami, know, many, moons ago. And I was just like, my God, I'm going to play this in my set every weekend for the next two years, probably. And that is what happened. And he just he said he just felt defeated and like I said, and depressed. Like I said, it's a little melodramatic. But like, I think the message, they're great. deeper on his videos. They're really... He shot. They're funny. Really, but you know, but he makes a great point like he wants to and then in a video two weeks later He said his point was like I need energy to feed off I need like energy to feed off of in order to provide the product that I want to put out like I need to know where I'm going in the journey in regards to how you react to the music and if you're not reacting you're just standing there and your and you're filming, how do I know where to go? How do I know what you're into? And it's just such a... It's not it's a little different than like if you're at a festival and you have a set performance, right? This is a he's he's in this space. And I think. It was a this is a Meekino set that he did, and he's like, the girls are beautiful, the venue is beautiful, and I don't know if it was day or night, but like, you know, he's trying to actually DJ the room and it's just not happening because how can you if people are just standing there recording you and there's no there's literally no reaction. It's wild to me that this is a thing that like you're gonna go see somebody perform and you're not gonna move. I find it even when I go to like a brewery and somebody's playing live music and if you're just a guy, nobody's really paying attention. I he's out strumming there playing his guitar. I'll at least just make some kind of reaction if I like what I hear. Just so he knows that I'm listening. I always think those moments are so awkward with like the soloist in the bar that like is just playing music and it's like, man, nobody clapped after that song. feel like such like I'm gonna, I'm gonna clap for him because I feel bad kind of thing. to clap every time because you know what, you and I, we're in that position. You're in that position, right? Like is anyone actually listening to me? But what that's creating and what I understand why people do it, creates an ambiance. creates a little bit of a vibe in a room that would be otherwise dead. And that's why you have these day DJs at places like, you have to at least acknowledge that the person's playing music. Like, please, just acknowledge it. You can't just stand there and record motionless. It's absolutely crazy to me that it's rude at the end of the day. It's fucking rude. It really is. I think that's, think just people in those situations, DJs in those situations are fed up because it's rude. Like, they're there, they didn't become a DJ to have somebody wave their fucking phone in their face. and there and record them. I can guarantee you that. Not one DJ became a DJ for that. So I think it's rude. I think it's ridiculously rude and people gotta stop doing it. Yeah, it's- for a little bit and then go dance. And then the next song I really like it, record for a little bit then go dance. Just don't stand there the entire time. It's hard because you're right as DJs, we constantly talk about reading the room and finding pockets of people that are dancing and whatever, but if you're just looking at a sea of people recording you, it's like what cues can you take to possibly plan your next few tracks, you know? You're sort of just shooting blindly and I don't like feeling like that. I know most DJs don't feel that way, you even if you're not necessarily watching your crowd and if you're going to search for the next track, you can still feel that energy. And if it's positive, dancing, happy energy, or if it's just people that aren't dancing and like normally for anybody, not dancing is a bad thing, right? But I think what's happening is just because people aren't dancing at shows doesn't mean they're not having a good time, you know? Like they wanna be filming, they wanna capture the moment, they wanna share it on socials. And I said to you, you know, I think this is this like deeper issue of people just being so addicted to the dopamine of getting those likes and comments and shares and you know, that's, they're recording it for that, you know. You're there, be in the moment, enjoy the show, enjoy the music, dance if you're having a good time. I know that seems crazy to say but. tell the story a little like not outside of the nightclub, but tell the story about the other night because this is even just as ridiculous. Tuesday and it's first inning. know, like Yankees get out of the top of the first, we come up to bat, lead off, what? 20 second timeout. Set it up. What, what, because people aren't gonna always be listening to this in real time. Fucking wild. Yankees won the first game and this is game two. And yeah, so like the three people in front of me literally recorded every single Yankee at bat for like the first three innings. Then, you know, they got their food, they got a beer, they like sat down for a little while, you know, and then later in the game, they literally recorded every single play. And I'm like, guys, you're like, why? I just don't understand what's the point of this. Why? So you can get like the Aaron Judge homerun captured on video so you can get the big play by Soto captured. Is that why? I just don't understand. And I think the more that I see it, the more I'm involved in these type of things. And this started at show going to shows for me. But now it's when it comes to sports, like guys, enjoy the moment. Watch the game. You're there. You could watch the game with your two eyes, but instead you're watching it through your phone recording. Like it just doesn't make sense to me. If you're going to consume it in that way, just stay home and watch it. I get it. You walk into the stadium, you want to get a video you want to like catch the catch the the atmosphere, maybe the introduction, you want to get the last out of the game. Sure, I totally get that. But to be sitting there and recording every at bat, it made no sense. Unless you're a scout, I don't want to what are we talking about? Like, are you scouting for game for game four for when we go to go away on the road? Like, what are we doing? My suits weren't that good. It's. You're right, I think it is. It is that dopamine shot. It is that that hope to get likes to show off a little bit. And we all do it. I'm not going to say that I don't put stuff out that I'm like, like, I hope people like this or like I I do it every day. Like I put it. I go for a run and put the sun set up and be like, so beautiful. Like I wish the people. in Jersey when they're up there and it's cold, they could see how nice it is here if they want to come down and hang out. You know, like it's just like you there is there is always that thing in the back of your mind of like, all right, like I'm posting this to do this. And like the third inning of a Yankee game after already. Already filming so much and the same thing at like at a DJ set after already filming so much, how much more do you need? I think that's the thing that boggles my mind because whenever I go to anything, I'm definitely taking a picture or a video. I'm still, you know what, we went to, just real quick, we went to Epcot, I have a bunch of friends in town, so I've been there a couple times this week, but I've been there around like 6.30, I think like three times in the last 10 days. And the sunsets have been gorgeous. And I'm like, here I am again, taking a picture of this. I totally know I don't need this. But like. You know, it's just like I'm self checking myself, but I'm like, here I am still doing it. What's wrong? Like, and I think that's what's happening at these shows. It's like even if you even if you self check yourself, I think some people feel like they still need to to get the footage, you know, and I just artists are just starting to get fed up with it because it does. feels rude. Yeah, I'd be interested to hear more about some of the newer artists that are of this generation, what they think about it, you know, because I think you and I obviously have been around a little while and, you know, Bob Sinclair is old, you know, like he's older than us for sure. And I, you know, I haven't seen a lot of younger, I saw a video from Afrojack, like he was doing a comparison of one of his shows from 10 years ago and one of his shows recently. And it was the same thing, like the... the video of people from 10 years ago, every single person had their hands up and was dancing and having a good time. And then it cut to a 2024 show and it's a sea of phones. So I'd be interested to hear what some of the younger generation thinks about this, but it's not just happening. You know, it's happening all over the place, right? The kind music, it's another one. saw another video of they were playing move and not one person was dancing and you know, like just all recording. The absolute irony of that is hilarious. like all over the map, all sub genres and genres. I don't know. I don't know. Man, is it happening at my base shows? Are we on the rail head banging or what out here? Let's go. The non-movement is scary. The kind of music stuff, that is very just drum-heavy music that should be moving you, and there's nobody moving. I feel like that's, and we can get into a little bit of where the rabbit hole that Afro House has gone down, but I think the essence of Afro House, the essence of the last 10 to 12 years of what I've been downloading on Beatport is heavy drum African inspired music. Music that's supposed to like move your soul kind of a thing. Like what real house music is based off of. And then you see these videos of just people standing there recording it and not moving. It's the complete opposite of what it is inherently supposed to do to you. It's just mind-blowing. And then the only guy that's dancing is the DJ. How is that a thing? Yeah, I don't know. Like, right. fucking headphone, their head scarves on too tight. Like, go loosen those things up and dance a little bit. Stern's hate. It wasn't me. It wasn't me this time. Yeah, because I hate when somebody, you know, does something for themselves as a style trend and everybody goes and bites it. Like, get your own fucking style. I know I'm dropping all the F-bombs today, sorry. I don't know, isn't that sort of what happens in the the industry in the in the fashion world? Like people gravitate. I'm a big sneaker guy like for three years ago, if someone said, I'm, yo, I can't wait to cop these ASICs. Like I would have laughed in their face. And now everybody listening, not everybody, I'm sure a lot of people now have a pair of ASICs that they're wearing. Like every DJ in the game, you'd go out and was wearing Jordan ones and now they're not and like it's it's just sort of things get popular and less popular. I think this summer, especially, but like leading into the summer Afro house was probably one of the most popular or was one of the most popular sub genres in dance music. And I think I sort of see it going down the same road that slap house did. And we all know how much I hated slap house, but it wasn't because the music wasn't good. It was just because everybody started releasing music in the same style. And it was slapping, slap a vocal that everybody knows over the top of this same drum beat and the same sounding track. And it's sort of happening with Afro House. And I think once that starts to happen, I don't know, you just sort of start to see it go. Like that's always a sign that that sub genre is sort of leaving the mainstream or just maybe not going to be as popular as it once was. So a couple things here. And the summer's over too, and like, that's a very summer beach day party rooftop type of music. crossed. It's it's crossed over now into the more I don't want to. It's not pop by no means is but it's gotten more popular is what I mean. And I went to I was downloading in B port yesterday and I'm like, this is awful. I've never done that. I've got I owe it 100 % of the time in the Afro house section. I've gone through all hundred top hundred downloads in that genre. I got to like 22 yesterday and I'm like, I give up. This all sounds exactly the same. And I know that sounds like old man in the room, but I've been a fan of this music forever, forever since 2002. Since the first time I saw Eric Murillo, and Danny Teneglia, know, and Jonathan Peters was big into this back in the late 90s. Like I've been a fan of this music forever since they called it Jungle. Okay, and this is the first time that I'm just like, I'm absolutely sick of this shit. because you tribal jungle. Yeah. Well, you had to just as you always have these sub genres that get switched the names. But yes, was tenegely was playing more tribal like he was like a tribal guy. folders based on what people are calling music and like I had a tribal folder, but that was like a while ago. And now it's now I call it like, you know, Latin house or drum house or, you know, drum inspired music. I caught like the tail end of Jungle, it was like a little deeper, and then Tribal was a little more like Congo, like, but anyways, I digress. But like so, so, so boring. And it's just, you lose originality. And it goes along with the fashion statement. don't just follow a trend. know, use the trend to your advantage, right? If you're a producer. follow the trend. You want to do Afro house? Absolutely. But it can't sound like every other damn Afro house song. Use use the trend to come up with your own sound. Right? Like the drums and the kicks should sound completely different. They shouldn't sound exactly the same. You know, and if great advice. think another thing just to add on to that would be, like you said, like take what's popular, but you know, if you have a sound or a style of music that you're making or really into, or you see yourself sort of growing into, combine the two and maybe that helps you create something different from what's being put out there, you know? Like you can take stuff that's happening in Afro House and use it to your advantage, but... Maybe you're like me and you make harder music and maybe I can make a harder drop or you know, more bass house inspired drop with like an Afro house style build. I don't know. I'm just like spitballing but like look what Zay's doing. Zay's doing a great job of taking what is popular in like Afro style house and Latin house and he's bringing in other elements of Latin music that aren't usually put into house music. shout to Zay because I like what he's doing right now. It's really good. It's a little more innovative and it's thinking outside the box and it's everything that we're saying to do right now, you know? Yeah. Watch out for his tracks coming out. think there's one dropping this week. So we'll, tomorrow. So we'll link it. We'll link it in our show notes. It's also going to go out if if you're on our mailing list, I would send you out a little get down new music Friday, mailer tomorrow. So you'll get in your email as well. Little plug, you are not on our mailing list, and you want to be, because we have been putting out and releasing all of our DJs production and music there, just drop it in the comments, drop your email in the comments, or hit us up, DM us if you don't want your email out there, obviously, however you want to get in touch with us. yeah, DM us, email us, and we'll get you on the list. But anyway, sorry, how to plug that. think just to sort of talk more about what you were saying as far as following the trends, I think this goes for anything, you know? This goes for fashion, this goes for sneakers, this goes for music, and you don't wanna just be a follower, right? You can enjoy what's popular, you can embrace it, but find a way to put a spin on it, like Zay put a spin on his music, right? Find a way to do something that infuses some of you. into how you dress. Maybe you are going to wear the ASICs, but maybe you're going to wear a Yankee fitted with it or whatever the case may be, right? Maybe there's a certain brand that you love that isn't the most popular and you're going to wear it with something that is super popular and make it your own. right. It's the reason why like I don't, Perari's probably gonna kill me for this one, but like I don't follow that kind of fashion, like the fashion that he follows, because it's so of the moment, and it's the same thing with the music. can't, I'm usually playing, I'm trying to play this stuff before it gets popular, then when it gets popular, it gets wiped out of my DJ sets altogether. Ferrari a hype beast or what? Come on. Come on. So yeah, you know, it's it's I try to stay away from this stuff like the plague because it you just sound like everybody else. And it's it's something that I think more DJs need to pride themselves in a little bit. But that's a personal preference. That doesn't mean you have to do that. Right. Like, and I'm sure I get a lot of hate for that saying that. like I think you really do. There's a sea full of DJs right now, full. And like if you're just gonna play the same Afro shit all the time, like you're not going to stand out. Since Afros become popular, I've had five different DJs hit me up, be like, you got any Afro house spots? I'm like, bro, you've been DJing for two months, like I'm not just throwing you in a gig. It's funny because we have a little jot form to get information about DJs who are maybe trying to work with us and I'll read all of them and like lately They all say afro house. It's funny. They all do But it just goes to show like people are just following trends and like it's okay to an extent. It's okay to an extent. It cannot define you. No, but this has happened forever. This has happened forever. And I think the successful people and the people who are able to, you know, grow beyond a trend are the people that stand out, are the people that do something different, the people that go above and beyond. The people that are just following trends are just gonna follow one trend to the next to the next. And it's really hard to create a brand and create a sound when you're doing that. Yeah, agreed. You said something to me, we'll go back to this sort of people not dancing and phones and stuff. You had said something to me about how you think that the predominant amount of people are going to house music events, not for the music, but more so for the production and like the overall visual part of it. it dawned on me that maybe that's why everybody's just standing there recording. They're there for the production value of the show. And maybe the music's just a secondary thing at this point. Whereas like before there was a lot of production, the only reason you were showing up to a place was for the music. There was nothing really else. You had some lights and maybe some smoke and a great sound system, right? I feel like that's another, know, places used to be known for the sound systems, like fans of, like that was production at one point. You knew the name of the company who made the speakers. And that wasn't just DJs, that was normal. Like the girls I would hang out with, like they were like, my God, they have a phazon system, we gotta go to this place. And like people go to places just for sound systems. Just like. that and be like, I don't know what that means. Like, I'm sure it's gonna be great. And then like Teneglia stacks, know, like that party still gets followed around when he pulls the stacks out and he puts them somewhere. So before there was all this production, that was production, but now it's such visual production because it needs to be, because it needs to be something sellable, something to be creating content, and everybody's just, you're just. stimulated constantly with screens, we all are, and it's the way we consume everything at this point, that people are just showing up for the production or will go along because the production's good. I don't really care about the music too much. know, hey, Cream, you want me to go to the show with you? What's the music like? it's like this. OK, well, I don't really care about that. But the production looks cool at the show, so I'll go there. You know, like, I know this is I could be far reaching here, but like I think it's a little more it might maybe it's a little more easy to to get to get people together to go to some of these things because there is great production. I don't know. I'm gonna disagree. And the reason why I think... Very rarely, there's very few artists where someone's saying, I'm going to go see this artist because of their production. People are buying tickets to go see DJs because of their music. They want to hear a Fisher, they want to hear Crystal Lake, they want to hear Tiesto, they want to go to Brooklyn Mirage to hear kind music, right? I think the music will always be and is the most important factor in whether or not someone wants to go to a nightclub or to go buy a ticket to go see an artist. I will agree with you in the fact that the production part of it has never been as important as it is right now. And I think when you combine music that people know and they want to hear and they want to pay to go listen to with an incredible production and visuals and sound and lighting, it makes people go back. It makes people say, I have to go back to the Mirage because their, you know, their rounded screens behind the DJ made that Tiësto show so much better than if we just saw him at a festival kind of thing. Or even more so like, the ANMA visuals, right? The Eric Prids show. Deadmau5 used to really be heavily ahead of the times when it came to his stage setup and the cube and his visuals that went along with that. I think where, as we were growing up, the production part of it was just a small aspect and certain artists really focused on it. It's now just part of, it's part of being an artist. You have to have production and visual and something that goes along with your show. that people can video and be memorable and post. Like Loud Luxury, right? Their whole show is based around things that are trending and popular on social media. Like their visuals will be things that are popular. are certain sounds and songs that become popular. They incorporate that heavily into their show and that's part of what they do, right? They take it to an extreme in that way. So, to just sort of wrap up everything I said, because I said a lot, I think the music will always be the most important. People are gonna go to a show because of the artist, because of the music, first and foremost, but the production value is something that is essential in 2024, and it's something that maybe will create fans and get people to go back to that particular venue or to go see that artist again. I like that take. That's a good take. I'm trying to think of DJs that do lower production or have done lower production shows that are amazing and successful. in thinking of that, I'm thinking of some of the biggest DJs in the world. And of course, people are going to show up and have a good time at it. The one that I just thought of that just happened last weekend was the Black Coffee Under the Bridge event in New York, which looked sick, looked awesome. I heard mixed reviews, but you're going to hear mixed reviews about everything. I heard terrible crowd, but who knows, you know, half the people will say terrible crowd. Say it again. I spoke to Chachi because he went and he said it was awesome. He said he had a really, he had a good time at it and it was a good show. Because I had read in the comments, like, it's terrible, like the venue sucked and all this stuff and that's why I hit him up to see how it really was. But like, people are going to show up to Black Coffee and he could play in a shoe box and people will be there, you know. But a lot of stuff that goes down at Knockdown Center in Brooklyn, is that Queens? I think it's Queens. That's lower production and that always looks, they always have great parties there no matter what DJs go through. Whether they're a local New York City, bigger New York City local DJ or a touring DJ or somebody that's a little less known but in between those two things. Those parties always look like people go there to party, to have a good time. to shout out a party that's not, or a place that has parties is not as phone based. The Knockdown Center always is putting on talent that really does well in those environments. I will say this too, though, like, you know, we're talking about specific shows and specific videos we've seen of people just not dancing. There are plenty of shows where there are just see of people dancing, having a good time and no phones. I said to you, I just posted a reel on, you know, IG and a TikTok, same same video, whatever. But at Trio, literally the whole crowd like bouncing their hands in the air and they're literally you can only see one phone, you know, so That was a great experience. More recently, locally, I've had some shows where it's like pulling teeth trying to get them to dance. So I think it's just mixed, right? Riordan, a UK artist, posted some video of like Michael Bibi and another artist shows where again, there was zero phones and everyone was just dancing. So there still are parties that are happening out there and venues that are happening where people are enjoying the music and dancing, but it's sort of mixed out there right now. you think the less viral DJs are going to have less phones out in the crowd. And people are going to be there. Because those people that are in between, those very in between DJs that are famous enough that we all know them as DJs and then they have a fan base, obviously, but not famous enough to get like five million views on TikTok. Do you think that's the sweet spot? Like who? Like Michael Bibi? Like, baby, exactly who you just said. Somebody big enough that we really enjoy and we know, but not big enough that your neighbor would know. You know what I mean? I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know the answer to that. But I feel like that could be, that's a really good spot to be right now. But obviously you wanna be the viral guy who's making a ton of money. Obviously that's where we all wanna be. I'm not saying that the goal should be the middle of road DJ, producer, whatever. I think Michael Beebe's fans just care about the music more kind of thing. So it's a fan-based thing. I think it's more of a fan base thing. Like, kind music is like the, you know, the hot, the hot thing right now. And Black Coffee is too, like everybody's trying to go to those shows. Fisher, everybody's trying to go to those shows. It's more of like hop on the bandwagon and maybe it's where Michael Bibi like, I don't think the average person who doesn't know dance music knows who that is. It's a fan-based thing. But like, I'm playing shows where people are videoing me and I'm like, this is weird and boring and I'm playing shows where nobody's videoing me. I, it could just be a venue in a crowd thing. Yeah. It's hard to say, it's weird, it's definitely gotten more, it's become more of a problem, the phones. What do you think, what do you, sorry, finish your thought. I have a question for you. say, I like that it's getting a little more attention from the bigger DJs, that they do wanna see a little more crowd involvement. I love to see it, because that's what nightlife is. I feel like that's what nightlife is. People are going there to let loose, blow off some steam, maybe you had a long week and you wanna go hear music that you really like and you wanna go dance, but maybe that's not the overarching thought anymore. If the big artists are saying, hey guys, I would love when you guys come to my shows and videotape, but I want you to enjoy the moment more, maybe that would help, you know? So if more people are talking about this, it becomes a thing where people who go to shows are like, well this artist just put out a video saying like he hates when everybody puts their phones up, so like put your phone down kind of thing. Maybe we'll see more of that. Yeah, like I know in the dead community, you don't, you sparingly record at a show. You know what I mean? And like, but that's a community thing. It's community known. So maybe you're right about that. Maybe like, you know, if it becomes more of a community thing, then maybe it's a better mix. who are raving really hard are, you know, kind of telling their friends like, bro, don't put your phone up there when you know, like this is like we're here to dance, we're not here to put your phone up. When it becomes like a little bit of a peer pressure, and it's sort of looked down upon in the community, then less people are going to do it at the shows and they're going to enjoy more. So it's like a top down thing where the artists start saying it, then the hardcore fans start saying it, and it trickles down to like the average, whatever like popping into a show type of person. I've been to I've been to shows that are not house music shows if you like go put your fucking phone down. It's like man. Well hostile real quick. Well, what do you think about I think we're seeing in response to this, we're seeing a lot more venues and a lot more artists have shows where you're not allowed to have a phone where they either take your phone or they put something over the camera to keep you or you know, help prohibit you from using your phone during the show. I think that this is becoming more commonplace. This has been something that's been happening since Dave Chappelle started doing this many, many years ago for his standup, right? I think that was like the real big one. That was like the originator of you gotta lock your phone away. And I think because it's been just known and talked about for so long that like I don't, if that's the artist or if that's the venue's choice, then I'm all for it, right? Because at the end of the day, is their art and it is their performance that they're putting out there. And if they don't want it recorded or if they want you to consume it in a certain way, then I think that that should be respected. But I understand the pushback of not having your phone on you for an extended period of time. I like what they're doing for the Jonathan Peters party in New York City for Halloween, that they have the camera covers. So you could still use your phone, your camera's just covered. I like that because I understand it. If you have kids or other responsibilities that you need to tend to and you need your phone, mean, we do live in an age where we are expected to pick up our phone constantly. Maybe it's... Not great if if you have it like locked away in a bag for six hours at a time like that's probably not a great thing, you know in that, but I think the phone, like the camera cover makes complete sense. Like I would love playing parties like that. Now, on the other side of that, in an era where going viral and having your videos posted everywhere and, you know, the importance of social media, do you think artists, is it a catch-22 where like artists sort of want it? they want the cameras out because they want to capture the moment so that it goes viral so that they become more popular and they sell more tickets. to be able to ask somebody to cover their camera or put their phone away, you should be beyond viral. Your name should be beyond viral. Virality doesn't matter if somebody recorded a video at that show because you're already famous. Yeah, but I think there's a lot of venues in New York City right now that aren't putting, they're putting local DJs on that aren't allowing customers to have phones or cameras working. Yeah, like in those instances, I'm not sure it matters as much because it's not going to be a situation where every single person standing there recording. That's not, I think that's what we're talking about. We're talking about those videos of people, you can't find anyone dancing. That's the ones we're talking about. Every person, so there's like three specific ones, right? It's all the ones we talked about. It's the Kai music one, it's the... my gosh, like the Tale of Us guys, The Emma guys. I can't think of the third one. But anyways, but like it's those ones that like you're, shocking to see it. It's not the ones where like, okay, there's a hundred phones up out of a thousand people. Sure, it's 10%, but like, you know, I can get over that. When there's nobody dancing, it's, that's a different thing. That's a different thing. Like you have to lock your phone away. I think as York City club with a local DJ, I don't know. I think that's a little extreme. Yeah, but do you think it helps with more people being more... Yeah, being more present and being more in the moment and maybe having more of an inclination to actually dance? I think if it's a certain kind of party, yeah, I do. See, I think of this as more like an underground party, something that's really focused on really having a... Like you're trying to move a room, like in a, I don't know. I'm thinking like a deep, dark... like I'm thinking like at Birch and Hoboken the place I just played this past Saturday like what if nobody had their phones? What would people be doing? Would they be more engaged? Would they be dancing more? Would they be jumping around more? Would they be singing more? I don't know. I would say probably they would be but would they be Or would they have massive anxiety because they don't have their phone? Massive. You're to have a room full of, you're be given out antidepressants. Because just, because it's, I mean, that's now a natural thing. Like I don't have my phone on me right now, like I, but I know exactly where it is in the other room. and there's probably a sense of stress that naturally now comes along with that. There's been plenty of studies done that that is the truth. Once you. take somebody's phone away, their stress level goes up exponentially because you're just so used to it. It's become such a piece of you. So like, you take that away in an environment where I don't really know the DJ, I don't really know why I'm there, I kind of want to know my options about going maybe to the next place, I don't think that's a recipe for disaster in my opinion. What if, maybe for a ticketed event it makes sense, right? Like someone's committing to going to a place because you're buying a ticket, it's probably not cheap, right? And you're committing to being in that place for X amount of hours. So maybe you're also just committing to not having your phone for that amount of time as well. 100%, 100%. So I went to a show with my cousin and we got about a mile, we were walking to the venue, we staying at a hotel, we were walking, we got about a mile away. He's like, I don't have my phone. He's like, yeah, but I don't really care. He's like, I know I'm going to the show, I'm gonna be with you, we're gonna walk there, I'm gonna walk back. He's like, I really don't need it. And if an emergency happens, somebody will reach out to you, right? And in that instance, he really just didn't care. He was just stress-free about it. But he was committed to a four hour show, right? And that was gonna be it. had a great time not having to worry about his phone for one second. Yeah, a banged up, great time. But yeah, I think that's a great point that you make if it's a ticketed event, you know what you're getting into and you're committed. You've committed your time and your money. Then I think it's for the headliner anyway. It's an easy way to disconnect. So maybe that's just the easy way for artists and people to start sort of doing this is make that a thing, you know, make that a real thing. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I like it. I guess time will tell here in the long term what's going to happen with this. But I think we've sort of reached a tipping point where something's got to give, right? When the artists are complaining, we're seeing it. Something's got to give. it's going to, something's going to turn for the better, I would hope. It's, it's, I try to look at this from both ends. It's for the better for us, you know, the DJ, let's say, from, that's what I mean by us, not like literally you and I at shows. But like, is this what people want? Like is this what they want to do? And if that's what they want to do, that's what you got to let them do. I mean, it is, that's what they're doing. Does it suck? It absolutely sucks. from an artist's perspective. but it's gonna take us down a rabbit hole and like... Get ahead, we'll make it a short rabbit hole. So, you know, streamers, Twitch streamers, and people just getting followed around living their life, right? Like that's such a mainstream thing and popular thing right now that I think people look at that and see how popular certain people like Kai Sanat and I don't know, name any other big streamer. And they make a ton of money, they become super, super famous, they have all these celebrities on their stream. And like they look at them recording themselves like they are sort of following in that streamer path. You know? Like I gotta record everything I'm doing because that's what Kai Sennat does. Yeah, we have them all over, obviously, in a much smaller capacity down here at Disney. And like I was on somebody's stream last night on accident, like eating in the background. And my buddy who I was with is like, let's jump on his stream. It's like, wow, there there we are. Just I'm just standing there eating. I'm like, this is ridiculous. But it's it's it's all over. And these people are just like recording, just walking around the park. And it's like, this is so weird to me. But you go on the stream. There's thousands of people watching. this person just walk around Epcot. It's like so strange. But it's how younger people consume. Like I always say, I consume 90 % of my TV on YouTube. And that's where a lot of this lives. Can't knock it too hard because it's working somewhere. It's working in a lot of places, making people a lot of money. But there's a time and place, I think, with shows. think that's a different. That's a different conversation and argument altogether when it's a show and not just you walking around through regular life. because there's an artist involved that demands respect. The thought just popped in my head, so I figured I'd bring it up. All right, I mean, we've talked the whole episode about this one topic. We sort of knew that it was gonna be a long one because it is something that's happening right now in our world, and it's a major thing, you know? And I think it was important to talk about and kind of work through and... We don't have the answers and we don't know what the right thing to do or not do is. So I think that's part of it too, is it's a little ambiguous, you know? Yeah, I'd like to hear a lot of other people's perspectives because I'm sure there's a million other things that we haven't thought about or talked about that other people can input into this conversation that might get us on your side of it or have us understand what your perspective is. And maybe we're just not seeing something that other people are. Yeah. All right, so I was listening to the Tim Ferriss podcast earlier today and he brought up something that, a question that he asks himself when he's working on a new project or working on any project. And the question is, what would it look like if this were easy? And it was one of those where like a light bulb went off over my head. I immediately sent, get down an email like, I love this, you know. We sort of do this and we've been doing this lately, but I think it was something we wanted to share with you guys because In a world of having to put out all this content, all this music, all these different things that are important, I think it's extremely, extremely beneficial for us to have this attitude of, how can I do this simply? How can I make this as easy as possible on me, right? What tools or apps or websites can I put in place that are gonna help me to make this easier? And I challenge all you guys to ask yourself that question when you're working on something. Even music, right? Like, do I need to add this eighth layer of hi-hats? Do I need to? You know, just ask this question to yourselves and any project you're working on, like, how can I make this as easy as possible? Because if it's easy, you're gonna be more likely to wanna work on it and to wanna get it out and get it done. And the quicker you get it done, the quicker you can move on to the next project or the next track or the next whatever it is. And it doesn't mean to not do a great job, you know? It just means to simplify it, make it easier. I think we can all do better in our businesses if we have this mind state. Yeah, I'd like to highlight maybe something that we've implemented in our business that has made our life easier and our business easier and streamline some things this way that the listeners can understand kind of where we're coming from and whether it's a process, whether it's a website or an app. I mean, what do we do? What's the number one thing that we do at Get Down to J-Group, right? Book DJs. booked DJs, right? And I remember coming over to your place and we'd sit there and I'd have my notebook open, which I still use my notebook to an extent because I'm an old school, old soul like that. And we'd write all the things down and we'd write everybody's availability down and then write down everybody's dates from there in the notebook. And then after we did that, I kind of forgot that this was the process until I'm... was bad. this out right now. But we also didn't have 60 DJs that we were booking. It was more like 10, right? So we'd write everybody's dates of availability down. We'd write down the venues. We'd plug everybody's dates in. And then we'd go and text them. Yeah, each person, their monthly schedule, right? individually. I bet you our process back then took us as much time as it does now to book 6X the amount of gigs. We probably had five venues and 10 DJs. If I had to guess, that's probably where we were at. Judging by Aldez's text to you and I with the lineup that we were hyped about from five, whatever, six years, seven years ago, whatever it was. And now it's 26 venues and 55 DJs, something like that, like in that area. And I'm sure you're probably right that it took. longer than. So we use a scheduling software just like if you worked in a restaurant or you worked in you know retail like you you put in your availability and schedule we do the scheduling based off the availability and then once we send that out you automatically get a text and an email and we don't have to do anything the program does all of that right and then of time that we spend is solely based on which DJs are the best fit for which venues. And then all the other stuff, the app does, you know? All the backend stuff the app takes care of. And then if there's a drift, somebody drops a shift, which we talked extensively about last episode, we get a notification and then we can open that shift up to our other DJs and then those guys can request the shift, right? And this is all eliminating text messaging or phone calls that don't need to be had because it's all automated to an extent. And then where we wanna have our human hands on it, we can have them on, right? And all those important decision making processes, the stuff that we need to be involved in, the stuff that we don't need to be involved in, we're not involved in. And I think that's a huge thing to think about when you're doing anything just in your business, right? What do I need to be involved in and what can I automate, right? Right. paid to do? How do I focus on that part of the job or the task? I'm getting paid to DJ, okay, I book my gigs. What's the easiest way to book my gigs, right? I'm getting paid to produce music, right? That's number two. How am I fitting making music into my schedule? There's no way to automate that, really. So, how am I fitting? What I hear from everybody the most is I didn't have enough time to produce this quarter, this half. And so that's gonna be your next most important thing. Where am I gonna fit production in? And then whatever else comes after that. good exercise would be when you have a project, right? Maybe it's making an original track, maybe it's putting out a mix, let's say. Write out every single step in that process from coming up with the idea all the way to release day and all the things that you do on release day. Write it out in a step by step. These are all the things that need to be done in order for this mix to come out. I would then, obviously, highlight the ones that you, the artist, 1000 % have to do. Pick the songs, you know, put the track list, put the order of the tracks together. But like, then you can go through that list and pick the things that maybe you can pay someone else to do, right? Instead of me sitting here for one hour trying to make a Cream and Friends artwork, I can pay nine because he does an amazing job. He gets it back to me in 24 hours, and it saves me all this other time to focus on the stuff that's more important. that I need to spend my time on in the process of putting out my creaming friends. You know, so maybe it's paying a graphic designer. Maybe it's even paying someone to create the mix for you if that's not something, if you've made a million mixes, right? Like, but go through that list and start to highlight some of the things that you can allocate. If you have a team, I mean, most people don't have a team that are probably listening to this, but if you have a VA or you have anyone that you work with, how can you allocate certain things to that person to take those responsibilities off of your plate so that then you could focus on the most important thing. Yeah. So I think for the regular person listening, it's who can I pay or how can I offload a certain responsibility that I don't need to be doing. It doesn't make sense for me to be doing, or I don't have the skills to be doing. What do you think the biggest pain points for a growing DJ is? For somebody that's to come up and you're just like a growing local DJ and you're trying to elevate to that next level, what is going to do that outside of your music, right? I think just coming up with a content plan and I don't necessarily mean like posting on social media, but just coming out with, all right, this week I'm gonna create a mix. This week I'm gonna put out two edits. This week I'm gonna put out a Spotify playlist. And just sort of organizing that and coming up with a plan on how all of that's gonna happen. Because if you're just waking up and saying, all right, well, it's Tuesday, what am I doing today? Like you're probably not gonna be that successful. Yeah, hour in our end of year conversations, those are always the two top things. Number one is I didn't produce enough. Number two is I didn't put out enough content. And if you're producing more, you're gonna have more content to put out, right? One hand washes the other. it's creating these plans is essential. I will give you a personal situation, right? Creating and putting out content is hard for me. I don't particularly like to do it. Creating it, I like doing it. But like when it comes to social media stuff, I hate putting reals out together. I hate finding the right videos. I don't like doing it. So many times what I'll do is I'll pay for someone to collect content for me at a show. And then I'll pay for someone to take that content and create three or four reels for me. Again, number one, because they're going to do a better job than I'm going to do. And it's going to take five hours of my time and allow me to focus on something else. You know? So a lot of this stuff that I'm talking about does cost money, but guys, like, if you're business, I say this all the time, if you're not willing to invest in your business to help your business grow, you're not going to be successful. So be willing to spend money on a graphic designer. Be willing to spend money on someone to help you create reels if that's something that you need and you don't have the skills to do. Good advice. It is what it is. just, like, I look at it like, all right, I just got paid X amount of dollars for this show. Well, this much money of that show is going towards content for this week. And that, I think if you start thinking about it like that, like, all right, I'm getting paid this much money. I'm gonna spend 100 of that to go towards the person creating content for the next three weeks for me. Like, that's a steal, if you ask me. For 100 bucks to get three reels or whatever for three weeks even. well worth it. I like it. So tomorrow or next week or whenever you're working on project, ask yourself, what would it look like if this were easy? How can I make this easier? How can I make this simpler? I'm gonna do it for sure. I like it because it's a great question to ask. It's a great exercise and it will definitely make your life easier. It's gonna make our lives easier just thinking from this perspective. Yeah. Yeah, and you and I have implemented over the last couple years here and it's helped us greatly. We have, but there's always room for improvement. Always. to streamline right? Yeah, just gotta get slob on board. I know he's not listening. All right, I'm about to go watch the Yankee game. We got game three happening right now. I'm missing my my workout today probably to watch the Yankee game Wow. So. Alright guys, thanks for listening to this episode. We'll catch you guys next week. Peace. peace.