Eyes & Ears Everywhere 👀

In this episode of The Get Down Cream & Gary discuss:

• Why Cream LOVES Philly and how to rock an open format party.
• How to show value to a venue without getting taken advantage of. 
• The journey in navigating trying to be an artist while also maintaining your DJ career. 
• Universal Music licensing contract with Tik Tok expires. How does it affect Artists?
• If you could open a nightlife concept, what would it be?

Transcript

0:02

All right, what's up guys? Welcome to the 144th episode of The Get Down, brought to you by Digital Music Pole. My name's Kareem. Real quick, we haven't done this in a while. If you're not a member of DMP, and you'd like to be, or you'd like to check it out, we have a code for $9 or 9.99 for your first month. There's a link in the show notes, and you go check out DMP with all the exclusive artists, myself, Angel the Kid. I mean, there's a lot. Cash for Chumpion. Adam B. There's a ton. There's good ones. there two weeks ago, last week, I think it was. What great stuff, man. Pat C, Pat C, Pat C, I told you. I hit you up and I said, Pat C is putting out some different stuff. I really like to hear these different tracks that are being pulled in and mashed up and edited. And he used a couple funky ones. And I appreciated that for sure. Because I feel like I'm jumping around all these different. pools and I'm hearing a lot of the same acapellas and a lot of the same instrumentals and big shout to Patsy. stuff's dope. I will give this away, but the next Cream and Friends edit pack is coming out this month. It is three DMP editors from three different continents and myself. Pat C is one of those artists and he's the US representative, which I'm hyped about. He's been one of my favorite editors for a while. been playing a ton of his stuff and like selfishly, the people that I pick to bring on these edit packs are like the guys and girls whose edits that I play. That's how it should be now. Yeah, it's like the ones that I like, that I like to play. So, real quick before we get started, I was in Philly this past weekend. I played Wicked Wolf in Philly, which is a relatively new venue. We have a Wicked Wolf here in Hoboken, which I've been a resident for many years. Our Sunday party's probably one of the best around and has been for 10 plus years. Many, many months. But yeah, Philly was great. I was down there and it was a DJ set, but it also turned into the cream food tour of Philly. I'm a huge, huge fan of the Philly food scene. I think Philly's such an underrated city. I love it there. We had such a good time last time you and I were there and then I was there in September, it was phenomenal. Like the food scene is incredible. shout to all my Philly people that get hated on. Nothing but love from over here. I listen, their passion for their sports and their passion for their foods, excellent. And, you know, maybe a little rowdy from time to time, but we respect that. We understand it. South Philly reminds me of Jersey City, like where my family grew up and where I used to go all the time. And like, I feel like there's a connection for me there. There's like a big Italian population. You know, I went to the bakery, I went to Angelo's Pizza. You know, I did the whole, I did the whole like South Philly, Italian American thing on Sunday, which was dope. But uh. professional basketball out of Philly actually. So whenever I get to go down there, I get to go see kind of the gym, well, where the gym was, where he played and what not. It was cool. Place is dope. scene, like it's, there's so many colleges in such a small little area. Like there was a ton of young people at Wicked Wolf, and then when the bars let out, like I didn't, I don't really know anybody there. So I hung out for a little bit and like talked to the GM and some of the staff, but then I got a hotel and I just walked back to my hotel. But like it was a complete and utter shit show on the streets at 2.15 or whatever time I walked out of there. Is that what time everything closes? Yeah, done it too. I think we shut the music off at like 150. But dude, like, these Philly guys walking around in like t-shirts and shorts, I'm like, yo, it's 35 degrees out here. What are we doing? Like the sun's out on Sunday. You guys walking around in t-shirts and shorts. Like, what is this? Fuck's given. Hahaha. So one of our guys in the discord was like, yeah, it's the Jason Kelsey effect, you know? So I just thought that was Philly. That was funny. Big shout to Philly. You know, I was looking at my content. It's like 99% food and 10% DJing, but I'm gonna try to pump out some content, food and DJ related on some of my travel trips. So. How'd that set go? Like, how was the... It was awesome. I mean, we were packed by 1045 and open format, man. Up and down, they mess with EDM, they mess with hip hop. And like, you kind of just go, I just did a go-to open format set. It was fun. Tons of energy, huge place. It's like 1200 people in that place. It's ridiculously large. last time I was there, I was like, oh shit, Wicked Wolf. And it was quite the venue. Yeah, it was dope. So big shout to Smooth. He hooked it up with that booking. He actually was up here playing in Jersey with us too, so it was like a cool little swap or whatever you want to call it, but great feedback on his set. And I know they got pretty good feedback on me and I should be back there. So things, it worked out. It was a good trip. Beautiful. Um, all right, so let's get into our first topic and, you know, I'm going to do everything I can to not shit on people and get upset and get angry. But you know, we're in February. Everyone is feeling the effects of this slow winter time in the Northeast, at least, you know, like this is just a historically slow time and just like every other year and just like we always say, once you hit February. the gigs start disappearing and the venue owners start freaking out and everything is like very under the eyeglass, so to speak. microscope, yeah, everything's under the microscope. Everything's being looked at. Financials for sure during the week are being picked apart by all the higher ups, the owners, the financial people, the managers, and everybody's looking for places to cut the fat and, but also still generate. interest in the venue, right? So those are two things that don't always go together, right? How can you cut your budget and cut the fat in order to stop the bleeding, so to speak, but then also still generate interest and generate a party or an atmosphere or an environment that's going to bring people back to your venue nightly or weekly, whatever it might be, right? So this is the fine balance that we're battling. with our venue ownership across the board, right? Everybody wants a little more. They want the better DJ. They want the, when they want the DJ on the off night, maybe they want it at a cut rate, you know, hey, I can do this for you guys. Just, can you bring in a couple of DJs? Hey, you know, what do you guys think about bringing in this DJ? Well, it's gonna be a lot more money. Well, can we get him for cheaper? It's like, it's all of these conversations that are happening behind closed doors. And... having to navigate that as a business, at least you and I can bounce things off of each other. And we can kind of play devil's advocate and understand what the best way to approach these things are. Now, as somebody who is just an independent DJ, who is a... Somebody who's an independent DJ, who is a resident that maybe is dealing with this... as the face of the venue and is not represented by a management group, what are some ways that they can have these open and honest conversations with the owners and being able to kind of do enough to kind of do a favor in these slower times, but also not get taken advantage of? Like, where do you start? Especially if you're by, like I said, you're by yourself. It's a daunting task to go into the person who's paying you weekly and say that, hey, like I'd like to do this, but I don't wanna do that, you know? This is such a tough topic, right? Because especially speaking from the individual, right? If you have a resident and someone's asking you to either take a pay cut or do them favors, I think this is the time where you try and show value in other ways. You don't wanna take a pay cut ever, especially if it's a place that you work at regularly, because it's gonna be really hard to come back up in price. I think if it comes to the point where you do take less money, you need to have a conversation and then a follow-up email, we've said this in the past, with, hey, I think by March 15th, Saint Patty's Day, the very, whatever you want, whatever your timeline wants to be, but I'm just citing something. Saint Patty's Day, it's gotta go back up to normal rate. Yeah, like I would, if I was an individual, I would never, I would do everything I can to not agree to less money. as the last resort, but go ahead. If it's you either lose your job or you take less money, then I would consider this stuff, you know, if that's the case, and you're DJing for four hours and they want to cut your rate, I'd ask them to DJ for less time, like figure out, figure out what the hourly is. Don't ever speak to the owner in an hourly fashion, though. Figure out what the hourly is. And if they want to cut $100, figure out how many less hours that is of DJing. And maybe that's what you propose. But before we talk about like, cutting money or taking less money. Let's talk about the things that you can do to show value, to try to help out these owners in these slower times. And I think there's a couple things, right? If your venue's not making a flyer, go on Canva. Create a Canva account, there's a million templates. You can make something very simply. If you have zero graphic design knowledge, tell them you'll make them a flyer every time you DJ there. That's a small thing that will take very little time from you that can help show more value. Talk to all your friends if this is a place that you're working at regularly. On the night that you're there, push extra hard to get your friends in the door. Maybe you could set up an open bar for your friends with the owner, with management, because owners and managers want people in the door. So this is showing value, right? Hey, all of my friends, come, we'll get you an open bar for two hours, three hours. I'm DJing, come hang out, pay $35, $40,$50. You could drink for free, or you drink for unlimited amounts. the owner might not want to do this during peak guys. So think about this as a, how can I fill the bar or nightclub the fastest in the hours where they're struggling most, right? So that would be like the beginning of your set. So whether that's nine o'clock, whether that's 10 o'clock, you're going to maybe do a two hour open bar from nine to 11 or 10 to 12. And then obviously when the place gets to peak, then it's cash bar from there. So I think that's the best way to position it. One more idea would just be, we've been telling this to you for two months now, but hopefully you've had some conversations with the owner as far as ways to make the place more interesting or more fun. Maybe it's proposing a party idea and saying, hey, I wanna do a Drake night. Hey, I wanna do a John Summit night. Hey, I think this is gonna work in your place. Like let's do a country night or whatever the case may be. Something. Right. come with some ideas to the owner of how you can create an interesting and exciting event slash experience that will maybe bring more customers in. So those are just a few ideas off the top of my head of ways that you can show value and help bring more business to the venue without ever having to talk about lowering the dollar. I really like the idea of bringing, proposing some kind of party, whether like we said, maybe that is a brunch. Hey, now you're serving two things. Can I, can maybe you get now booked in the afternoon during this slow time and now you can double up at night, right? And so now you're bringing value into the place maybe at a time where they're not making a lot of money. you know, and selling food or whatever, but you're also now making money in an off, in an off peak, you know, and now you can go on out on Saturday night and work again. Now you're doubling up during this, during this extremely slow period. So I love that when you're thinking outside of just the night life space and being able to double down on your worth. Right. What are I'm trying to think of some other some other approaches? Hopefully this is an owner that you have a good relationship with, right? If you're a resident, and hopefully they're cool with you bringing ideas and having open conversations. If the owner is not even interested in like hearing you or hearing your ideas, maybe that's not a place that you want to be at anyway, if they're just looking to cut your rate immediately when things get tough, you know, because something that I will always bring up when someone asks about cutting the rate is sure we can cut the rate, but when we have really great nights, are you going to pay me extra? If we're going to cut it, then you have to give it on the nights that are really good. So if you want to cut my Friday pay, but our Saturdays are doing great, then the next Saturday I want more money. Right. That's a really hard conversation to even approach. I don't think we've ever even done that. I've had that conversation before with an owner, but it's someone who I've worked with for 10 years. And like, we fight. was the reaction? There was a holiday special event afternoon set that historically was always really, really good. And this particular day was not that good. And they approached me like, hey, Cream, this day didn't turn out the way we want. We wanna cut you and pay you less money. And I was like, well, no. Because I could have worked at 10 other places this day. They're gonna pay me my rate 100% no matter what. And you guys are supposed to ride or die for me. So, no. I'm not taking less money. I could have worked anywhere else in the city and brought my customers to another place. And like, eventually they caved in. They weren't happy about it. Eh. I think that... my ground on that particular one because I also had the ability to stand my ground at that point, you know? when you, well, that's the ability, right? When you do, when you are in that situation and you do have other opportunities, that's the way to position it. Hey guys, like I can go and play this place, that place, the other place, and I'm gonna get my money. So like pony up or I'm never playing here again. Right, like I'll never play another day set for you guys ever again if you're not gonna pay me the agreed upon rate that we just agreed upon. It's not my fault that you didn't get people in your building. It's not my job. Like I'll bring my people, of course, but it's not my job to make sure that your venue is busy on a holiday. Yeah, yeah, I think that's really the only way to approach that conversation is that like I had the ability to go play other places. So I cannot take less money. Now, on the opposite end of the spectrum, if there's a random afternoon set or an off set that's really slow, and like it sucks and I know the night's not gonna go anywhere, sometimes I'll be like, listen, cut me, pay me this much money, like there's no point in me being here. And that's it, like it's Thursday night and there's nothing going on, my normal pay is X amount of dollars, I paid for two hours, pay me for the two hours, I'll go home and it'll save you some money. You don't want to do this too early on in your relationship with a venue because you don't want to set a precedent to where they can cut you when it's slow. So I feel like this is something that you can maybe approach like down the line, after you've established a really good rapport with the place, right? Right, right. You never wanna set the precedent of having an owner give you the option to cut you kind of thing. You're right. So I guess this is something where if you've had a long standing relationship, it's something where on the other side where it's like, no, you're paying me my money, this is a case where, you know, it's okay to maybe, I'll leave early, you know, you're not making any money, let's just like fight another day kind of thing. Right, I've learned that early on, maybe like seven or eight years ago now, that because what happened, I left once early at one restaurant slash lounge that we played at. It wasn't a get down, it can't get down and it didn't exist at this point, but I left early and then the next week they're like, you wanna leave early? Then the following day, you wanna leave early? And I'm like, mother fucker, I shot myself in the foot two weeks ago. Right. venue relationship where you're the resident on Saturdays and you're doing something else like a different day off day. those off days, those afternoon shifts, those are bonuses you need to struggle through those sets and just get them done. Because it's extra money, number one. And number two, like if they have those afternoon DJs, there's an entertainment. it as much as it does it, as much as social status. But it's a place to be real. a bad position and you think that you're really helping them out by leaving like an hour earlier, two hours earlier, fine. Yeah, there's a fine line of like, we gave you all these strategies as far as how to show value and how to like give your two cents. Sometimes owners are just gonna be like, he's just the DJ, what does he know about my business? And like, if your owner is like that, then you kind of just gotta shut up and just be the DJ and do your job and go home and like that's sort of it. And you really have to know who you're dealing with and who you're working with. And then kind of get an understanding for how much, how much leeway you have and how, honest and open of a conversation you can have with an owner or a GM in the venue that you're working at. I think a lot of these bar owners have been owners for a long time and they think that they know, you know, they think that they know their business best and that's fine. They've earned that right. They own the business. That's a thousand percent. They could do whatever the hell they want. They pay the bills at the end of the day. Right. So They're the ones that invested 20 million or 10 million or whatever the number is. Right, so you know what, you can suggest things, but like you said, you have to just be super mindful of how that person's taking it. Some people don't take that, some people look at that as, oh, you think that my venue's not doing well, or we're not doing the right things. They're not always open to that. It sounds like criticism really to them, right? Any kind of suggesting sounds like criticism. So you have to understand who you're dealing with and then adjust accordingly. not always easy conversations, because you just don't know what's gonna happen at the other end. We've gone through it in a couple of different places where you could suggest, and then all of a sudden it's like, holy shit, I'm suggesting so much stuff that it looks like I'm criticizing your place. Right, you know. You and I are a little different, right? We've been in the game for a long time. We've worked in so many different venues with so many different owners. But even the DJ that's been in the game three to five years has been to a lot of venues, right? They've seen, they've DJed a lot of parties. They've seen what works and sort of what doesn't. So you guys listening, even if you don't have as much experience as Gary or myself, you guys have, you know what works. You've seen what works. And conversely, you've seen what doesn't work. So... Don't ever let anyone sell you short about your industry knowledge because you, some of these owners only are in their own places. They don't see what's happening in other markets and other venues, even in the cities next to them. So we are all over the place. We're seeing what's happening all over the state or all over the country, depending on how much you're working out of your market. And there's value in that. There's value for me going to all these different cities and playing in different nightclubs. and then bringing that information back to the home market. That is super valuable. It's underrated information to be, I'm thinking of this one owner that we deal with and every time I see him, if I'm on the phone with him, if I'm texting him, if I see him, it's what is this place doing? Like he's talking about his competitors. What is this place doing? What is that place doing? What are they doing? And he'll run through like eight bars and nightclubs. And I'm like. This guy really wants to know, like he wants his finger on there. He knows that he's not going out, right? He's older, he owns his place, whatever. He's not going there. So what's the next best thing to do? Ask me what's going on over there, you know? And he takes what I tell him like to heart. It's very seriously. I love that. I love that like that a little intrusive, now I wanna know what's going on. It just it shows that he kind of cares it shows that he wants to have a finger on the pulse So what's going on? He gets it. He doesn't go out there's a saying that I say to you all the time that I got from my dad, but I have eyes and ears everywhere. And it's true, because we have worked with so many people, we know someone that works in every venue in the in the state, you know, like, a couple weeks ago, a venue sold in Hoboken, and I told another venue owner who owns a number of venues in that in the same city. He's like, Wow, I didn't know that. Like, I knew that before he did. Which I kind of love. Yeah, but it's because that's that stuff that like, yeah, those owners all talk to each other in some capacity. But like, that's the stuff that they're not sharing with each other. But we know everybody that works everywhere. So like, when people get let go, like, they have to find out that they're losing their job. Right, like we got the text from the staff, from the old owner kind of thing. So yeah, this is a tough time and just have open conversations with the ownership and the management and try to provide value, but don't get taken advantage of at the end of the day. That's really where it comes down to. Yeah, I think that's the best advice, right? Just don't get taken advantage of and don't give too much. Because at the end of the day, you know, this is a mutually beneficial partnership that you have with each of these venues, right? It's not like they're giving charity, they're not just putting money in your pocket, you're providing a service at the end of the day. So when negotiating or talking money or any of that thing, any of that stuff, just remember that You're not just going and hanging out in their venue. You're providing a service, and if you're good at what you do, you're making them money. So... Yeah. You're worth something. You're valuable. And make sure you remember that. like it. All right, let's transition here. I don't know how you wanna get into this, but I think, like we've talked a lot about guys like Solano and some of our other DJs who sort of took a step back from like the DJ grind of really like gigging hard and maybe playing venues that don't necessarily make sense for them so that they can focus more on music production and genre specific type stuff. And Most of the time, this is open format DJs that want to be EDM artists of some sort, right? Like that's usually the path. So I always say that like I respect and totally understand why a DJ or artist is gonna do that so they can make the music and really try to break out of this local market and do something bigger. But at what point does it start hurting you when you're not gigging? And like, how many gigs a month should these artists really be trying to actually go play? And like, this is no, I'm not throwing shade whatsoever. I know we've talked about the other side of this for a really long time. So I kind of want to talk about like, maybe you should be gigging more kind of thing. Um, so my question would be is how much, what does DJing mean to you? Right. I think that's the first thing I'd ask the artist. What does DJing mean to you? Do you like DJing? Do you want to DJ? Is deep, do you, do you never want to DJ again? Right. Because maybe that is the case. Maybe their passion is just production. And then as soon as that one song hits, well, then you're going to be back out there grinding, right? And maybe they're okay with having a day job and whatever that might be, whether it's in the music industry, whether it's not in the music industry. So what does DJing mean to you? That's the first thing that I would ask the artist, right? If it means a whole lot and they really wanna be out there and they love the DJ portion of this artist role, then it's trying to figure out. exactly what you're asking. Is it one to four gigs per month? Am I just not promoting them? Is it trying to take like this, it's not like a low gig, it's not like a low gig, maybe it's a 500 person venue, 400 person venue gig that's open format and it's not so specific to my genre that I'm producing, but I do get to sprinkle in my genre and do these mini artists sets that are 15 minutes or 20 minutes long, whatever it might be. I think maybe that's the conversation. It's let's get you into the rooms where you're able to play like these mini artists sets that are like 20 minutes and maybe they have your logo up on the TVs everywhere. You know, there is a nightclub environment but it might not be a nightclub, if that makes sense. You know. Yeah, and then you have to take all that other stuff into consideration. Does this sound good? Do they have lighting? All of that stuff. But like, I think that's, that's away from what we're talking about. It's just positioning yourself into places that are okay. Maybe they're not like the, okay, I'm a traveling DJ or a traveling artist yet, but you can still keep your skills up in the DJing world and then also scratch the itch of wanting to be out there and gig. Yeah, I think I just asked the question pretty poorly in this case. And again, like Solano is doing his thing and, you know, playing Birch in our market and traveling to Penn State. So Solano, I love you. I didn't, I hope I didn't offend you because I wasn't specifically talking about you, I'm just talking, using you as an example, as someone. Yeah. He, cause he's the first person I think of who has been putting out a lot of music and really focusing on the music part of it. So. Um. I don't know, to answer my own question, I do think it's important to stay active, right? You wanna still play to a live crowd, and like you said, maybe it isn't like the true nightclub, because there aren't that many nightclubs in our market. I know in other markets, there's less and less true nightclubs, you know what I mean? So it's like, I think you should take the gig, but maybe just not promote it, you know? Like, and I've said that to guys before, like, just go play it and like just don't promote it. I mean, whatever. If they get mad at you, they get mad at you. But like, I think it allows you to stay sharp. It lets you go play some sets, but still gives you that ability to focus on what the overall main goal really is. My mentality is always DJ first, right? Like that's just kind of, that's where my heart will always be, it just DJing, right? So like, I can never think about just taking a step back and like, all right, well, DJing is done now and I'm just going to focus on production or this other thing. I feel like you kind of have to get out there that once a month or twice a month or whatever it might be, just, you know, pick and choose those spots, but. but you are going to have to supplement your income by doing something else, right? If that's how you're going to do it. Yeah, I am super proud of all those people that recognize what their goals are and if it is production and artists and traveling and like if you're able to really step back and say this is what I wanna do and I'm willing to sacrifice the short term to reach my long term goals, like big props. Like that's really hard to do, you know? Yeah, it's extremely difficult. It's scary too. Oh man, but yeah. scares me, right? We talk about it, like, I'd love to spend more time on production, but like, there's just other stuff, get down and other priorities that are maybe more part of my long-term future, right? Right, right. There's so many factors that go into this conversation. Time and time again that we have it, it's where you're at in your career, where you're trying to go maybe financially, where you're trying to go as an artist, what other things you have going on in life that can benefit you maybe financially, or there's just a million different things and everybody's super circumstantial. Yeah, and I think one of the reasons why this whole topic even kind of came up was really because some of the travel gigs that I've played recently, and like, I'm not an artist, people aren't hiring me because of my music, like my original music, you know, but I do want to play more EDM. But many times, like I have to pivot and just play open format, because that's what the crowd is asking for in front of me, you know? I'm so glad you said this because I think this is a huge learning lesson for people that are getting booked out of their market. I think that sometimes we'll get asked to go play somewhere outside of our market and it's not because of our original production, right? It's whether you have a connection or whether a manager moved from one market to another and they're like, oh, we want to bring you down there, whatever. You have to... manage your ego and expectation where like you're not this traveling DJ, right? You are somebody who is able to get out of your market to go DJ. That's good, right? But you're not being, you know, seeked out and be like, you know, Cream's going to sell a thousand tickets down in whatever city, right? Like you have to manage whatever that expectation is and whatever that ego boost is going to be because you traveled to go DJ somewhere. Right, and even I'm not necessarily, sometimes I'm getting booked because they're like, we wanna bring Cream in and we're gonna pay him and whatever. Sometimes it's because I have great network and great relationships with people out of market. And it's like, we have a podcast to showcase DJs and we can bring DJs into book. And if I didn't have that, I probably wouldn't be getting booked out of state either. You know? I like to keep reiterating this in 2024 as managing expectation and having some kind of self-awareness. We talked about it on what will be next week's podcast, but it's just that's what, I think that's the 2024 mindset that I'm taking. So I feel like it's something that I'm gonna reiterate over and over here on this. Yeah, for a long time, you know, we support everything that any DJ is trying to achieve, right? But I think it's also partly our role to step in and be like, well, that might not be realistic right now, or that might not be realistic in the next 12 months, maybe in the next two years or maybe three years, or here are the things that you need to do to go from where you're at right now to where you want to be kind of thing. And sometimes DJs don't want to hear that. It's good to have lofty goals, a thousand percent. You should have lofty goals, right? You should have that goal that seems so far reaching, right? But you have to understand that it is still far reaching. Can you get there a thousand percent you can? As long as the groundwork is laid to, in order, the groundwork is laid to get to that goal, as long as that's there, right? You can't have, I wanna play Madison Square Garden and not have a roadmap. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, you don't produce music? How are you getting there? You know what I mean? Like it's, you have, so you have to have a little bit of a roadmap in order to get to those lofty goals. we had with Dramos years ago still stands out in my mind, and he made me think about goals and goal setting completely differently, but he always said, I start with the biggest goal. Like, what's my biggest goal? And I work backwards. So maybe that goal is gonna take five years. What do I need to do in the next five years to get to that point? And then you have to engineer, like reverse engineer it kind of thing. And I think it's, like you said, it's great to have these lofty goals. And I wish I had someone... as I was coming up, be like, Kareem, think bigger. Every week I wish someone told me to think bigger. Because you'll move faster, I think, if you think bigger and you put the work in to do it. You gotta be realistic and you gotta have a plan of how you're gonna get to that next level and next level and next level. Alright. Man, this is kind of a... Next topic's kind of a big thing in the music world here. Yeah, so Universal Music Group, which I believe is the biggest, I think it's the biggest label, if I'm not mistaken. Universal Music and TikTok were unable to come to a licensing agreement. And all of the artists and all the music that is owned by Universal is now blanked out on TikTok. You can't find artists like Who is it? Drake, Ariana Grande, who else is universal? Taylor Swift, U2, my favorite group of all time. This is such a... This is not a hit for, meaning a negative, for Drake, for Taylor Swift, for Ariana Grande, for U2. This is not a negative for them, right? That's not who this is concerning most. Who this is concerning most is up and coming artists who are signed to Universal that haven't made it big yet. like Drake, like Taylor Swift, like you two, right? What we've seen over the last several years now is that TikTok is the springboard for turning artists and songs viral. And then making those artists able to tour and charge more per appearance and so on and so forth, right? So... It's those lower to mid artists that aren't known by the general population that are being affected most. What the fuck are those people supposed to do? Are they, is there a mass exodus and, hey, I'm gonna call my lawyer, you know, if I'm an artist and I gotta get the hell off universal music. Is that what it is? Because that's a gamble that universal music's taking. This is tough, right? Because from the universal side of things, part of this is to help their artists, right? They're trying to create a better deal for their artists' music, which makes them money, but also makes the artists more money, right? That's ultimately what they're trying to do, is they understand how important universal music is to TikTok and to the users of TikTok. They don't think the deal is fair, and they're trying to get more money for... their pockets, obviously, but in turn, their artists pocket. So from that perspective, you have to make a stand at some point, right? If you don't pull your music, you're never, you have no leverage to make more money. So I understand that side of it, but if I'm a young artist signed to Universal and every person, every A&R, every, you know, everybody on the team at Universal is telling me, you need to make sure that you're making content for TikTok and your music has to be on TikTok. TikTok, and then you take that away from me, how am I supposed to promote myself or my music? Like, how do you promote your music? Is this universal thinking that they're bigger than TikTok? Because they're not, they'll never be. You know what I mean? They're going away from what the trend is right now. TikTok's the trend, it's it. Like, so like... You're hurting your artists more, but I understand that you need to take a stand and hopefully something comes to an agreement within weeks, right? it's been, what a week at this point, right? Like how many weeks is, if it's only two weeks, all right, I get it. It's only two weeks, like it sucks, but we have a better deal and I'm back on TikTok kind of thing. right. I think that's the hope. Because if it becomes a month, me as an artist has to think, you know, I gotta make a move. Can I make a move? What are my options? Right, like, I don't know. I don't know what the options would be. But if those artists were being recruited or asked to sign a deal by Universal, and if in that deal it said, well, you can't post your music on TikTok, not one of them would sign the Universal. because TikTok has become such a place, like you said, for artists to blow up and for songs to go viral. And, you know, many artists have used TikTok as a way to blast through the tears of being an artist and like make a lot more money and create more fans. Something that we didn't really talk about or think about when we were talking about the topics today. I think this is an example of why it's really important to have somewhere a platform, whether it's your website, whether it's something else that you own the IP to. Because if TikTok goes away and Instagram goes away and any of these platforms go away, what are you left with? Like what? I think there's always gonna be something at this point. The government can ban it all, but somebody's gonna come up with something to get around it. I'm gonna really throw this back. Napster back in the day, got around the government all day long. And there was a lot of stealing of music back then. This is an age old conversation of regulation and things going away. But there's constant evolution. And if Napster was to get banned by the government, then the next thing was going to come out, whatever that was, LionWire, right. And then it was, and then MySpace, and then Facebook, and then MySpace took off, and then music within MySpace, and then that went away. And then it was, so there's constant evolution. I think we live in a world now where there's always going to be something, right? But you're right, having something like a website to really showcase in the short term, if things do go awry for, even if it's two weeks, it's kind of a long period of time in the music industry right now. Right, two weeks is an eternity. You don't see songs stick around for too long in the, you know, like being viral, if you will. Right, I think that's almost a weekly occurrence. So yeah, having something like a website and something that your fans are connected with and familiar with in case something does happen that they can go consume elsewhere. I was listening to Tim Ferris the other day and he talked about how he got really popular and he was looking at media outlets that maybe weren't as popular at the time, but became popular or became popular again. Blogs, he was writing a blog and that's sort of how he got popular, right? And podcasting, people weren't podcasting and he went all in on kind of working on a podcast. So the masses right now are. are kind of moving towards all the social media platforms, right, but there are certain things to me that no matter what are gonna be valuable for the length of time, and that is a strong email list of fans, customers, you know, other artists in your industry. That's something that no one can ever take away from you, and I think that's extremely important, number one. Number two is a website. You own the IP address, you own... you know, all that stuff that goes on your own website, hopefully, and you know, maybe websites aren't something that's popular right now, but I think it could be something that's popular again at another point, right? Like things come full circle, and I think those are two platforms that, if I was an artist, you know, that I would be really focused on. I mean, those, you know, the email list is something I've always been focused on, but. I mean, I think those are great things. And then if you, if there's something out there guys that you're tapped into, that you're interested in, that you think could be the next best thing, or maybe you don't think it's the next best thing, maybe you just are extremely into whatever this form of media is, maybe you go test out your material there. And that's something that you can, you know. start to do and hold on to and hopefully that does become the next best thing. Right? You have to constantly experiment and evolve into new spaces because trends are trends. or one thing is really popular right now, maybe it is smart to go in on something else and try something else. Go to a platform where there's less competition, you know, like... Gary Vee all day, right? Gary Vee all day is always interested in what the next big thing is. And he's not afraid to share it, right? He's always like, I'm huge into that. He was so big into TikTok for so long. He's like, it's the next big thing, it's the next big thing. And then it was, same thing with YouTube. He was one of the first, he was the first, first wine reviewer on YouTube. Because he was interested in that platform. And we see what that did for his dad's wine company. So like... You don't test out those things that you're interested in. One other thing that I want to bring up with the Universal, I think one of their big issues was all the AI-generated content with their artists. And I think we're gonna see more of this where these record labels, and they're gonna have to make a stand with some of this AI content that's coming, popping up on the various platforms, and it's gonna be really hard to, I think it's gonna be really hard to censor, you know? It is, I think we are like at the doorstep of AI just completely inundating our social media feeds. And at what point does some, I know this is completely off music topic, but at what point does more than just the universal have to step in and say, Hey, we can't put our stuff out there. Like we can't even put Drake's face on. Instagram or whatever, because there's now a hundred million, you know, Drake accounts that are like fake accounts, putting out fake music that sound just like it, look just like it, you know? So like, we're at the doorstep of that. But so like, how, how is that going to look in six months to a year? It I had said this on a previous podcast. I think the first way is for some sort of regulation where anything that is AI generated, there needs to be some sort of a stamp, an alert, something like, hey, this is an AI generated piece of content. Like, no matter if it's music or anything related, I think that's really, really important that you should have to have, you should have to declare AI generated content as AI generated content. And I think people are still gonna get faked out, you know? Like there's still gonna be so much fake news from that stuff, even with the stamp or alert. Yeah, I hate to preach regulation, but it's really the only way at this point. It's kind of funny, like I was just watching a, it's not a YouTube rabbit hole, but I was watching like a 60 minute interview with the head of the Fed. And one of the big topics is AI and how to protect against it and how it's gonna affect the Fed and whatnot. Yeah, I mean, this is the reality, right? This is a huge, this is one of those things, potentially, where it changes humanity. I know that sounds crazy, but like, this is one of those technological advances, maybe like the internet, so does, you know, where that, it changes how we do business and how we live. I mean, look at, the Apple Vision Pro just came out. Have you seen videos of, like, I saw some video of, people having a DJ set up wearing the vision Pro with Twitter with the TV and with like Xbox up in five different screens and like someone was literally scratching turntables with all this other shit happening like it's Interesting my best friend is like mr. Apple mr. Tech dude He obviously pre-order this and like I've been trying to get over his house to mess around it But he's been sick, so I will have a report on the vision Pro in the next week or so I can't wait. Can we get some content out of that, please? I beg you, somebody needs to record Kareem doing this. Why, do you want what I'm seeing on the screen, or do you want me actually with the thing on my face? want to side by side, send it to Brandon. We need some edited content here. Oh man, it's just really an interesting time. As technology changes and grows. We don't know what's gonna happen, you know? We're gonna have to, there's gonna be, this is the biggest topic, one of the biggest topics of discussion, right? Like, it just, how is this gonna be integrated into our lives? How are we gonna, you know, sort of navigate this new era? It's already integrated into this podcast, Graham, so. All right. we're trying to do more with it, but... Yeah. Can I ask my last question or you wanna end? I got a hilarious response, but go ahead. What do you mean a hilarious? Oh, to the next question. All right, so I was thinking about this because we obviously talk about nightlife and concepts in venues all the time. So I wanted to ask you, if you had, if you were opening a venue, what type of venue would it be? What's the concept? What kind of music? And if you have a name, what would you call it? What if the outside of the club looked like the inside of the club? Yeah, how did you know I was gonna bring the Night of the Rocks fairy into this? No, for real though. We preach experience so much. So it would have to be, I would really have to sit down and think about something that would be a new experience that's not too kitschy, if you will, like not too like, you know, like themed. Sure, the theming thing is good for a short period of time, but obviously the interest will go away after a while. lasts for so long. I mean, what I would like to see is, my perfect space would be a smaller space, like a 200 person space, kind of one of these long, narrower venues, high end, but I would all... You know what, I'm gonna go back here. You know what it would be? It would be like a dinner club. That would be my spot. It would be something where there would be a hybrid, where I can have a stage and have, whether that be a big band, whether that be a jazz musician, whether that be a DJ, whether that be acoustic or indie. Like I wanna be able to do a different thing nightly, right? I, whether that, can I have tables and have a dinner party and cater to that? And then on a Wednesday and then on Friday, then bring in, you know, name your DJ and pack the place filled and do a nightclub experience. Sure, this would be expensive, but if this was my dream spot, this is what it would be. Because you'd be able to, you're not sticking to one thing. Maybe my kitchen's gonna stick to one thing, obviously, but... You'd keep your menu small enough that it is interchangeable. And then you have the things in place in order to provide different entertainment. That'd be mine. I like it. I would say I would not open a place because I would not. Everyone, like people, like Kareem, when do you and Gary open a place? I'm like, we're not. I'm like. Yeah, I want to consult. I want to consult with other people's money. That's absolutely what I want to do. I think if there was a situation where we became owners, we would be able to create a successful venue just because of a lot of the things that we talked about and because we have a lot of experience, we've seen a lot of things, we've seen what works and what doesn't, but this would not be, I would not wanna be an owner at all. Let's clarify here. I'd like to be a partner. Be a silent partner. A partner of some sort, right? I haven't decided if a silent partner or like some kind of managing partner in some capacity, that would be fine. Would I wanna be an outright owner? No. Do I wanna be a 51%? No, definitely not. That's just not, there's too much. We run a small business and it's a lot, you know? I think if I were forced to open a place, I think what's lacking a little bit and what I think, like, all the people that are used to like the bottle service thing and spending money at the at the club are older now right they're not going to like the 21 spots. So I'd open like a really nice restaurant that does a really cool experience nightlife that maybe ends at like 1am. You can... focus on bringing in really cool extra things, and a lot of them, whether it's live musicians, fire breathers, dancers, just cool different stuff. I mean, it happens. The few places that I can think of in our market where this is happening, they're doing well. But eventually, even those people would age out, right? Those older people, like, They spend money, they have money, they're willing to go out, they're used to buying bottles from when they were in clubs earlier. I would wanna create more of a high-end experience, whatever it would be, and not like a turn and burn vodka soda, please, I don't think. I think high-end experience is even with younger clients, help 25, let's just say, because I think we're thinking high-end 35 and over. But in talking to, I was talking to a couple of people in the city when I was DJing over there a couple of weeks ago, and they were in the 25 to 27 range, and they're like, oh, I'm not going to the Vacasoto place, I'm going to this high-end nice restaurant that also has a little bit of entertainment involved. So I think the interest is there. even at a younger age, as long as it's an experience driven night, you know? Two con two other concepts. Here's how I think right? What how our market is super oversaturated with the sports bar that does a DJ that plays probably mostly EDM or open format. Definitely not doing that. What what's lacking? I think something where all like all vinyl venue really small with food and cocktails would be sick. Do you guys not have one in New York yet? There are a few, but no. But are there, there's a few that are just all vinyl spots, but are they like, we're gonna feature like the, what they call the selector? I'm sure there are. I mean, there have to be in New York. There's none in Northern New Jersey, that's for sure, that I can think of. Jersey City might have a place that I just don't know about. They don't because a buddy of mine wanted to do this. We spoke about it last year and he went through all the pricing and everything. When I tell you astronomical to do a 75% venue, it just wasn't realistic. And that's what the problem in our particular market is. I mean, this is why we saw Lavo shut down and... Yeah. and what? It's just, it's not realistic. Go ahead. I mean, the other one would be like country slash live music because most places don't do that. And... A honky tonk. Like a proper honky tonk. a proper one, like Big Country was talking about the place that Blake Shelton opened up in Vegas, which I don't know if you've seen any video of it looks absolutely sick. It's like three stories. It looks sick. But like there aren't a lot of those here. So you find a market where you think that would work. And that's how I would think like, what are we lacking? Where where can we bring something that people haven't seen 1000 times already? You know, everyone's for how long? We want to be like bounce. Like we want to be like bounce. At every venue owner I talked to for like five years straight was like, we want to be like bounce. Like a sports bar that sells bottles. Like, yeah, I get you want to be like them, but so does every other place on the block. There's a reason why Bounce is Bounce, because they were one of the first to do it and make it very successful, right? So now you gotta find what that thing is for you and then have everybody wanna be the next honky tonk in New York City. Ha ha. I mean, I ain't open to a place, so you don't gotta worry about it. It's not happening. It's not happening because I don't know if I could be a silent partner, and that's what I would wanna be. But I don't know if I trust many other people to be like the active partner. You know, you'd have to lose my number if that happened because he'd call me daily with some kind of grife about what's happening in the place. Can you believe what this idiot's doing? He's not doing it cream's way, I'm over it. I'm busting balls, it's too good. Alright, let's wrap. I feel like we went off the rails on this pod. It's fine, we've been recording for over two and a half hours today, so. Alright, anything we want to promo, anything happening, when are you coming back up here? I'll be up not this weekend, next weekend, the 16th, 17th, I believe that is. So I'll be up, I'll be doing, oh, I don't even know where I am. Oh, I'm at Dutch Fred's on Thursday, the next Thursday. I'm at 626 doing my birthday set on Friday. Hey, your birthday's coming up here. this Saturday coming up. So I'm doing my DJ celebrations the following weekend. Where the hell am I? And then Saturday I'm at Under the Boot, 6 to 6 in the afternoon for Drag Brunch. And then Sunday is gonna be, it's up in the air. Got a couple new gigs that opened up earlier today. So I'm gonna pick and choose my spots wisely. All right, nice. One thing I want to promo, big shout to Luca who threw down for Get Down Radio this month. I listened to the set, it was dope. I listened to it on my ride to Philly actually. House music, little Amma Piano, little Afro, it was a good mixture, I enjoyed it. And guys, go check that out. If you guys actually, if anybody wants to be a featured artist on Get Down Radio, hit us up. We've sort of ran the gamut on all of our DJs in our crew, and that's kind of why we started this, but we'd definitely be open to having some guest DJs if you're down to be part of Get Down Radio. If you want to be a guest on Get Down Radio, like, we're gonna look, like, subscribe, and comment. Because if you're not liking, subscribing, commenting, we ain't picking you. I like it. All right guys, thanks for listening to this episode. We'll check you guys out next week. We actually have a very special guest next week. We're excited for you guys to check that interview out, that conversation. So we appreciate you. Talk to you guys soon, peace. Peace, guys.