Tis' The Season....To Be Sober🍺🍸🍾

On this episode of The Get Down, Cream & Gary talk about:

• Holiday Season & How To Navigate a Very Hectic Schedule. Santa Cons, Holiday Parties, Corporate Events. What Can We Do To Not Burn Out?
• Sober DJing & How Can We Handle Our Job Without It Becoming a Crutch
• Is There Too Much Pressure To "Make It" as a DJ? Most of us Won’t “Make It” Anyway. Can & Should Most People Look at This as a Side Hustle?

Transcript

0:01

All right, what's up guys? Welcome to the 140th episode of The Get Down brought to you by Digital Music Pool. My name's Kareem. We're squeezing in one last pod here before Christmas. This felt like a must do because we missed last week, always difficult with traveling and everything. We're gonna get into a last week extensively. And probably it'll be a good reason why as to why we didn't record. I mean, other than you being extremely sick too, which was insane, which was like every day you woke up and it was like worse and worse and worse. So yeah, squeeze this out. it, right? Because like we're in the midst of this December holiday rush. And I feel like every year we just forget how aggressive it really is. Number one, you know, all of the DJ bookings, we're booking a lot of guys and girls. And then on top of all the nightlife stuff, there is a ton, a ton, a ton of private events, right that we're booking. This is our busiest month of the year, probably. It's either it's some. last quarter months. something that we didn't have, I don't think, as aggressively last year. I mean, we always have some holiday parties that we are booking to DJ, but I think this year has far gone beyond what we've done in years past. You've been cranking every day on Cream Handles, our private event sector of the business, and he's been cranking daily on this stuff. Whereas it might have been every other day or every three days last year. So we've been we've been super busy with the private event holiday portion of things Yeah, and I think that goes, I bring that up because that goes for all of you guys as DJs and business owners as well. Like this is a really, really busy month as DJs. A lot of times, I mean, we talked about this, right? Previously, I used to jam out these months so that I could make the maximum amount of dollars to pay for Christmas and prep for this upcoming slower season. But like, it's just a busy time. Not only are there all the bookings, but there's all the holiday parties, right? Like, how many holiday parties have we been invited to in the month of December? that we kind of like want to be at or have to sort of be at, right? Yeah, I flew up and stayed an extended period of time last week because to do the cons, because New York City, SantaCon and Hoboken SantaCon were back to back weekends. And then in between those, we had four of our venues owned by the same person had their holiday party on Monday. Then the DMP holiday party was on Tuesday. And then Wednesday, we threw our open decks be three party. And then I was back to work on Thursday and Friday regular, and then hitting my second SantaCon and two Saturdays the following day. And by that point, I was just toast, man. Just absolutely toast. And I was mentally prepared for it from the standpoint of knowing that things were happening. Maybe not that Monday. That Monday party sprang up on us pretty quickly. I think the previous Thursday we were told about, or Friday. I was prepared to kind of bang things out. That's why I was there. And then as I was doing it, along with it being cold up there as well, it was just like, it was a lot, it was exhausting. It's drinking every stinking day. Like, you know, both holiday parties were open bar, obviously. And then the cons are just absolutely out of control. And it was just like one thing after another. And by the time. Thursday rolls around for. you know, to work again, it's like, God, I'm just absolutely beat. Right, there's no time to recover. There's no time for your body or your mind to recover. And, you know, that's why I've been sick, right? I haven't given myself enough time to just like recover and rest. And that's, you know, that's on me, but. Yeah, but like, like working out's not even, you know, is that even the sleep for me, you know, on waking up on, you know, Tuesday morning, Wednesday morning, Thursday morning, that was more important than the, than trying to go work out. You know what I mean? And then trying to eat healthy in between all of the debauchery that happens from all of these events. Like I walked in Wednesday and everybody's like, can I get you a shot? Can I get you, can I get you a beer? Can I buy you a drink? I'm like, no, absolutely not. You cannot. They're like, no way. Joey Bogues said to me, he said, I said it to him earlier in the night, I'm not drinking and he goes, let's see how long that lasts. He comes to see me about an hour later. He's like, was that a vodka club? I was like, that is a straight up club soda, sir. He's like, I am shocked that you've lasted this long. And I didn't drink until Sunday actually. Um, because I was just so done. Like from that fall from that previous weekend. You know, you go in pretty hard. I worked doubles and triples for Santa con and stopped by to see the guys at downtown social, which was absolutely incredible. They did a hell of a job over there for Santa con. It Harry the dog, hell of a job for Santa con, New York city. Um, we had a slow build in the city, which was unlike Hoboken, which was a madhouse from the start, which I guess we could maybe get into a little bit. So I want to talk about my set a little bit for Santa con. Um, it. So my sets for both places were individually different because of how they built up. I rolled up to hair, the dog at, uh, I think I started at noon. So I rolled up at 11 30 and they didn't have, there was no line or anything. There were really no Santas around in the area when I, when I walked over there. Whereas I walked into birch at 10 30 and Hoboken, and there was at least 75 to a hundred people online 30 minutes before they opened. the importance of getting to these sets early guys is of the is it is of the utmost importance due to the fact that when I walked in the owner said, fuck it, we're opening early. I'm like, what? I was like, I just set my computer up. Girls are still doing their makeup. Like he's like, get behind the bar. We're going like we're opening now. Cause like they're not trying to leave money on the table. They're legally allowed to be open. They're going to open. So make sure. why not open and start making money? get your ass to your events on these big nights early because you don't know at the drop of a dime things can change and they did that day. And all of a sudden, 11 a.m. and I'm in my second song of the day is Peak Hour. I'm in Peak Hour already. Yeah, it's bangers. Bangers only. just straight up bangers and dude, like the sets differed so much because my hair, the Hair of the Dog set was more singalongy. It built, I actually, I posted on my story two days ago of like the slow build. There was zero people, then there was 15, then there was 100, and then there was 300, you know, or whatever it is. But it was packed, like you couldn't move in there. And then like, whereas like Birch, it was like, I was just going. So like the HOD set one, the big, they were both five hour sets. HOD set I was exhausted, but four and a half hours in, I was like, you know, we were just going for it the whole time. The Birch set was probably the most challenging set I've had in years. By that point, I had stopped drinking, like I said days earlier, my body just needed a rest. I didn't think I can get through the rest of the weekend if I was just gonna keep abusing myself. but having to play peak hour for five hours is, it's very, very difficult. Like I can do, I've done 10 hour, 11 hour, 12 hour marathon sets, but those are spread out to where you could play like rock sing-alongs and classics and then you could jump genres, where I felt like, at Birch, yeah, I got away with a couple sing-alongs here and there, like they sang along single, Living on a Prayer and Make My Dreams Come True and Journey and they sang along to all those but I played EDM remixes of those songs. I could have probably gotten away with playing the originals of that stuff, but I just feel like it doesn't fit that room, right? Like I feel like if you wanna hear that stuff, you're gonna go to the more barry spot, right? Like if I could still sing along to it to like an EDM type version, I feel like that fits that room better. Do you agree or disagree? I don't know. I think because those birch sets were long and they were like pure peak sets, at some point I would just go play like a fun bar set because you could get away with it during the day on a holiday like SantaCon. But yeah, I mean I see both angles for sure. I think the- previous time playing Birch, yeah, a lot of high energy house music, but I would go hit like the fun bar stuff as well, just because I never do that there. And I just felt like in that setting, you could get away with it kind of thing. I think my mindset changed a little bit on it because it was, usually when I can build a set, I will be more comfortable in dropping down, right? Because we started off in a drop down type space. Because... what you're used to. That's what you're used to walking into a room and it being slower and being able to flow into your peak hour set. Right? Like that Burt's set is a headliner set that then extends for multiple hours. And like everyone thinks headlining is easy, but it's hard to walk into a room and just be at a 10 and like be able to carry that. Yeah, it was not easy. And getting down into 80 BPM stuff was, obviously you get there, and the energy's definitely a lot different. I don't know, but I did have to change the ear than the pace a lot because people get exhausted, which we've talked about recently. And we saw a little turnover, and turnover's okay on those days, because there's a huge line outside. So, exhaust those people out when they get sick of hearing it, they can move on, and then you get a fresh set of drinkers in, which is always great for the venue, right? The venue's going to ring more the more turnover you have. That's only good if you have a line outside waiting for people to come in. That's not good if there's nobody standing outside. You don't want to turn those people over if there's zero people outside. I did it on Halloween, I was telling you before, off air, I did it on Halloween, we had a... 500, 600 person line around the block, one city walk long. And it was okay to turn those people over to get fresh set of drinkers in the, in the door and get them to the bar and get them spending money. Yeah, I It's okay if you're repeating some stuff. Maybe not the exact same version of a song, but like it's okay playing the Sandstorm EDM different edits or remixes or whatever. Or like the, you know, just the biggest records, I think you're okay hitting them again because most likely it's a completely different crowd. Or if it's not, they probably aren't even gonna remember that you played it anyway. I played one or two tracks that it was the background, it was the instrumental of, with a different vocal on it. Yeah, so I did that I think twice, where I noticed it, but I was like, I don't really know if anybody noticed it because the forefront of the song was really the leader, like the vocals of the song with the leader on it. Right, right. Which I probably wouldn't have never, if I was drinking, I probably wouldn't have noticed that, but like I said, I was stone sober. So, um, headliner sets are really, really hard. The last time I had a long one was the last time I played Slate, where in previous sets, I always had an opener, and then the booker was like, oh, it's just you. And I'm like, what do you mean it's just me? It's a long ass night. It's hard, man. It's hard to not exhaust your music in that world when you're used to playing two or three hour headline sets, and now you're playing a five hour headline set. You have to reach and you have to dip into different genres and you have to change people's ears and it's a challenging thing for sure. I like those from a nightlife standpoint better. I found that this Birch One was a bit uncomfortable because of just the extreme, you wanna hit them with a lot of energy early because people are excited to be there. People ran in the door, running in the bowls, ran in the door, right to the bar, and dancing right away, immediately, one second in. And... You're just not used to that. Like even in a nightlife setting when you are doing an extended headliner set, there isn't always that energy in the room. I compared that set to like a New Year's Eve set where people are just very excited early, where you're gonna play, and this is a good tip to anybody that's listening to this because your New Year's Eve set is coming up. Remember to front load those sets. I always, always front load those sets because people are gonna be so drunk by the time the ball drops because you're probably DJing an open bar. Make sure you front load all that stuff. Do not leave anything on the table for post-New Year because it's not gonna happen. Nobody cares. Right. bars are starting early. Eight o'clock, eight thirty nine o'clock. People are dressed up, they're excited to be out. If they're going out on New Year's Eve, they're excited to be out. They spent some money to be there. used to going out and drinking like that. Right. I always came, I always came to my set, like going hard out the hard, meaning going hard with like a lot, a lot of energy off the rip. And then you could kind of dip down as you feel your crowd out, but everybody's walking in with intention and energy. Um, and I think so that's important to note. a night where people are leaving earlier than they would normally leave too. So, you know, don't be shocked if your room starts emptying out at one instead of two o'clock on New Year's Eve. And it happens all the time. And, you know, don't be upset if you start seeing it because it's gonna happen. Yeah, you don't, right, don't be disheartened if you got an empty room at one. All that stuff's on that front end. All that stuff's on that eight, eight p.m., nine p.m. You know, that's still a long time for people to be drinking before the ball drops if it's an eight o'clock start. Even if it's a nine o'clock start, you know. Like you said, it's a lot of rookies, so people aren't used to being out for that long. So, yeah, I was treating that Sanicon set like a New Year's Eve set. And... instead of the ball dropping and people going home, when Dario Valley went on, there was still an absolutely packed room and probably was for a few more hours after. So yeah, that was just an interesting way to see both Santa Cons and they're just really great days for the bar industry as a whole. They might not be great days for the city, right? night might not be great for New York City. I know it's hugely frowned upon. There's a lot of no Santa signs on the restaurants and whatnot. Same thing in Hoboken. It's frowned upon, but it's great for the local economy. And, you know, as long as these small businesses can make some money during these days and nightlife and these restaurants can make some extra money like this, I think it's great for, it's a great event, period. Yeah, I would agree. And I think we've been talking about how our industry's been hurting a little bit. Like we need these days, you know? We need these days to keep everybody going and bring a little excitement and energy to maybe some rooms that haven't had so much excitement and energy over the last month or so. And honestly, like, you know, who knows what's gonna happen after New Year's Eve. So I think this was an important day for the venues. You know, it's a Saturday where you're making money all day and night. And hopefully that'll, you know, that'll help reinvigorate some staff members, owners, managers, and customers to come to keep coming out kind of thing, you know. Yeah, with all that being said, that's my last one ever. I've never done, I don't think. I haven't played one in probably two years, three years. I'm probably not doing another con for the rest of my life. I think that's the end of it. the con nighttime because you still get a taste of it, but you're not in it all day. And it's important, like I say to you all the time, it's important with so much happening with our business that it's more, my time is more valuable to me in being able to make sure all of our places are running smoothly and our DJs are good rather than being out and DJing in it. You know? So in talking about that too though, so you have these con days, and then you also have these holiday parties that we talked about in between during the week. So how do you kind of conserve, how do you suggest that people conserve a little energy and still go to the things that they have to go to? How do you pick and choose, what holiday parties do I have to go to? And which ones can I skip? Is it worth going to this holiday party on a Tuesday and maybe forgoing my Thursday night set if I feel like that's going to like wear me down? Like how do you, how do you feel about going about that? We've lived this for a while, right? We've gone through this time however many years, a lot of years, and when I talk to the younger guys and girls, I'm like, listen, it's okay to take a break. If you need a break and you don't, maybe don't take the Sunday set, maybe don't take the Thursday set during this time because you know you have so much other stuff. I had a conversation with Tony the Tiger, one of our younger DJs who's... really in it. He works a full time day job and a full DJ plate on the weekends. And like, there's many times where he works on a DJ set, sleeps in his car and then goes to work, you know, and it's like, you could only do that for so long. And I get it. Yeah, a lot of you guys listening are young. And it's like, you could still handle it. But you can't do that forever. And I think it's important, even as a younger DJ to understand that it's important to take care of your body, take care of your mind. Sleep is such an important thing. And during these holiday seasons, when there are a lot of things happening and a lot of places that are requiring your time and energy, yeah, I think you need to prioritize, how's my relationship with this group or this venue that's inviting me to a holiday party? Am I the resident DJ there and I kinda need to go show face? Is it the get down holiday party and they book me a lot of times and I need to be there? Or is it maybe a venue that you only play at once in a while and they invited you, you don't have to be there kind of thing. I really think it's, it's very personal, right? It's like, what's most important to you and where do you have to show up? Where, where is showing up really important? And maybe it's for one hour guys, like just show in, pop up, say what's up. Don't drink and then dip out. And, and like, I think people remember that you were there. They're not going to worry if you dipped out early kind of thing. Showing up is the most important part of it. I speak to a lot of the owners that are having these events and I spoke to one in particular over the weekend after one of the events that he threw and he was like, X person wasn't there, Y person wasn't there, noticed that certain people aren't there. If people are feeding you business or they sponsor your podcast or they, you know. or they're a part of your business life in, I don't wanna say a major, major way, but in a way that affects your bottom dollar, you should be there. You should be there for them. They're throwing an event for their employees for a reason. They're showing appreciation, they're putting their money into that event, and you should show up. Because if you don't, and when you don't, it's noticed and next time they need something, maybe you're passed up on. I know that might be an extreme. It sounds extreme, but I've seen it done. You know, we've talked about this with birthday parties. Like if somebody is booking you and they invite you to their birthday party, like you should probably go there, even though maybe none of us want to go there, throwing this event. So, you know, to kind of get their friends together, you know, and their, their people together. in one place to celebrate. Yeah, just have to pop in and say hi, do a shot, have one drink, leave. I'm gonna take the opposite end of the spectrum because forever I was doing just that, right? Like I always have overextended myself and that's why I end up getting sick and that's why I end up getting burnt out. So take what Gary just said and it is really important and again you have to pick and choose what's most important but at the same time where I'm at currently it's like I don't care how important the relationship is if I need to take a night because I don't feel well, I'm exhausted. I'm mentally worn out, like I'm just doing it at this point. And I know things are a little different for me, the business owner, than me, the DJ, for sure. right. You're established, it's different. Like I think I'm speaking to the 22 year old that's trying to like get established, right? Or the 23 year old that's trying to get established that like, all right, you've DJ'd in this owner's place a bunch of times this year, right? I'm 23 years old and I've been in this owner's place a bunch of times this year and I get invited to the holiday party. Well, you better show up. You know what I mean? Um, because then when that owner opens another place, when he's, you know, cause let's say he's only 30 and he opens another place when he's 35 and now you're 27. Well, you want to be the first guy to, to headline that place and bring your, your people in, you know what I mean? And you want to maintain those relationships, especially when you're at a young age, cause you don't know what's going to happen down the road. You don't know how many more places that owner is going to own. It's, it's, it's important. It's important to keep those people happy. It's a demanding, demanding time of the year. It is and it's just nonstop. So I want to transition into, you brought it up earlier and you talked about being sober this past weekend and why that was important. And I think I've been seeing more and more DJs kind of going sober, especially some of the older guys, the headliners who are traveling. And it's been on my mind, honestly, a lot. And I've gotten sick here in the last little bit and I've been forced to not drink. And... It's honestly been really nice to be quite honest. It's been nice to only have to deal with, oh, I only got six hours sleep, not I only got six hours sleep and I did four shots last night and I've had three drinks and I feel kind of shitty right now, you know? Right. So yeah, I mean, I had, I had a long weekend, the weekend before with New York City, Santa Con and all those events that I spoke of. And then by Wednesday I was shot. So I was like, okay, it's really important for me to kind of take care of myself now for the, for the next few days. Um, and, and like you said, I've, I've also seen even years and years ago, like people like Danny Tenegrino goes sober while they're DJing, which he, he wasn't, I think Sasha went sober years ago too. And I was like, okay, well, maybe that's like the key to, to longevity, right? Like I go pretty hard when I go up there and I was like, well, I'm going to go a completely different route here for this weekend and go sober, right? For me, it was extremely difficult because I didn't realize how much I think about what other people think about what I'm playing. Does that make sense? Like how you're acting or what you're playing or what do you mean? what I'm playing, like what I'm, you know, how was that transition? Did that transition miss a little bit? Was that track selection good enough? Oh my God, those people didn't like that track selection. Oh, I should probably get out of this immediately. And like the wheels just turning and turning and turning, and I didn't realize how having two drinks quiets that down a lot. Even doing this for 23 years, I still have an extreme performance anxiety, extreme. Like, and I noticed it this weekend. Like, just, I was nervous for five hours at that Birch event. Like, usually it would be the first 30 minutes and then I'd chill out. It was five hours of anxiety. Like, and like, second guessing everything. And like, there's no way that you can be effective when you're just absolutely second guessing everything. And that's when I was like, but I was like. fuck it, like I'm staying strong to this no drink thing for the weekend, I wanna make sure that I can just do it. Because I don't want that to always have to be a crutch that I have. So I did it, I did a Thursday night, Friday, and both my sets on Saturday, and it was fine. And it worked out fine, but I just realized how stressed I was the entire time. Ha! And it's just because of that, it's just that anxiety, it's performance anxiety. Like I don't naturally like to get up and speak in front of people. Like find it easier now because we do this and we have these conversations all the time. Getting like me getting on the mic while I'm DJing is kind of not existent because I have anxiety about it. You know? So like, it was a challenge, it was stressful. I don't feel like I was. I was more clear in where I wanted to go with my set. I just wasn't as confident in the execution of it. If that makes sense. So Sunday I went and DJed, same thing. People were sitting down eating, watching football, and I'm DJing and I'm second guessing everything that I'm playing. Is that not the dumbest thing of all time? It doesn't make sense. I didn't have a dance floor, it didn't matter. I was like, all right, I'll... I decided to have a few drinks on, on Sunday, like not anything extreme. Like I had a seven hour set. I think I had five drinks, four drinks, something like that, nothing crazy. And I realized like, all right, after like two drinks, I was fine. It's not a big deal. I know. All right. earlier this year, I probably took like a month off of drinking or six weeks or I don't remember what it was, but the first weekend was more difficult, right? And then the next weekend got easier and the next weekend was easier. And then it's like, you just get used to it. And it's like, you don't need that crutch of alcohol to loosen you up. You're just, you're used to it kind of thing. And you've done it the last bit. And that's it. I found it a lot easier to go into nights and saying like, well, I'm not drinking period, rather than, oh, well, I'm only gonna have a couple drinks and we'll see how the night goes. Because if you're like in the room and people are bringing you shots or staff's trying to give you drinks and you're just like, oh, I'm not drinking, and period, end of story, it's a lot easier to have that conversation than like, oh, I'm gonna have one or two drinks. And then it's like, oh, well, you just had a drink. Like, why won't you do a shot with me? And it's... You know, a lot of that is stressful to me, where it's just like, well, I'm not drinking, period. So like, I'll do a shot of club soda if you wanna do that kind of thing. So that's part of it. That was part of the anxiety for me, is like dealing with our peers that are drinking and how to go about doing that. Obviously, dealing with the drunk people is a little harder when you're dead sober, but again, you don't take things as seriously once you've done it for a few weeks in a row. And I don't know, I think I'm on another streak here where I was forced to not drink because I got sick twice in the last month. And I think drinking after that first sickness and not sleeping and working and going right back into what I was doing was one of the reasons why I got sick again. And I'm just at a point where it's like, it's not worth it to me. I wanna be healthy, I don't wanna deal with. with being sick and being hung over. And I think I'm just kind of at a point where I'm gonna be sober here for the next bit. Like I have Christmas and Christmas Eve and I'm even considering like not drinking wine at dinner with my family kind of thing. And just like kind of taking a break. Think if you're a person like me that likes a cocktail, because I do, I'll drink a cocktail while I'm DJing. Maybe going the mocktail route, I mean I know that's become more of a thing recently. I'm actually going to an event tonight that for every cocktail menu, that there's a mocktail on that menu. So if you're someone like me that just likes to have a cocktail next to you while you're DJing, maybe going that route is good. A lot more bars are... have the alcoholist spirits. And maybe that's also a good alternative. You and I differ in the fact that like, when I'm home during the week, like I'm never cracking a bottle of wine. I'm never opening a beer. I'm never having a cocktail. Like it's super rare for that to happen. Maybe my girlfriend and I'll open wine for dinner and I'll have like half a glass, maybe. Whereas, and then on the weekends I'm drinking. Like I'm out, I'm like having multiple cocktails or shots or whatever it is or high noons. It's such like a vast difference in my lifestyle where it's like, I like being sober. I like waking up feeling good. I like waking up early. So like that's sort of the route, but I, the mocktail thing I'm totally on board with. Like I would love to order a mocktail during this time where I'm not drinking. I'm going to dinner. I'm having, I'm going to lunch with one of my best friends tomorrow, right? We're doing our annual holiday luncheon where we usually order a bottle of wine. and have a cocktail and I leave there feeling pretty drunk by 3 p.m. Like I'm hoping they have some sort of a mocktail that I can order so that I feel like I'm in that holiday spirit, but I'm not drinking alcohol. Yeah, it's interesting. You and I do differ in that way because I collect wine. I also collect bourbons now at this point. Me and my really good friends here, it's not uncommon for us on the weekend, for at least one night of the weekend, we'll do a tasting and we'll pull out three different bottles of bourbon and we'll do a side by side tasting and compare tasting notes. And it's like an experience and that's how we hang out. You know what I mean? So yeah, that's why sometimes I like to just have a cocktail, because I always feel like a cocktail is like an experience, right? There's a lot of layers, I'm just into the tastes, and how each bartender makes it differently and what goes into it, I'm into that stuff. I'm into different vintages of wines and doing verticals, and all the things that make wine complex. I like all of that stuff. That's why I always thought I would love to be an FMB director. in a different life. Like I feel like that would be a fun thing for me. But like, you know, that's, that's where you and I definitely differ for sure. But I like to bring it up because listen, there's substance issues in this industry, right? How many people do you know that have had to leave the industry or got fired or had numerous incidents where they were too drunk or doing drugs or whatever they were doing? And I think it's important to talk about because in what other line of work is it like not, is it okay for you to have, to get drunk? At work. Yeah. jobs where it's okay that while you're getting paid by a company, it's okay for you to drink alcohol. the percentage of people that have to leave this industry because they have a substance abuse issue is staggering. It's staggering. And then like when you do establish these substance abuse issues, it leads to mental health issues and it's just a spiral, right? It's a very hard industry to be a part of and it's a very hard industry to be a part of for as long as we've done it. Like I said, this is my 23rd, going into my 24th year. of being in the industry. It's been, it's a long haul and numerous friends and, and people that I've worked with closely have had to leave because of, you know, having some kind of issue with it. It's, it's, it's hard to say no, but you have to learn when you need to. Yeah, a challenge that I'm gonna put out to everyone listening is if, if someone says that they're not drinking or they don't want to drink or don't want a shot, don't try to peer pressure them into doing it. Because during the time that I'm not drinking, like, I hate when people are trying to get me to do it, you know? Like, it's, it's hard enough as someone who does have drinks while they drink to, like, not do it. And if someone has a problem or is trying to, like, you never know what people are dealing with behind the scenes. So... Right. My challenge to you guys is if someone says they're going sober or they're not drinking for a particular night, like don't peer pressure them into doing shots or bringing them drinks. Like be proactive in helping that person stay sober. So maybe it's bringing them a club soda instead of a vodka soda, or it's bringing a water shot so that person feels part of the group that's taking real shots. So yeah, I mean, that's my challenge to everybody listening because Again, you never know what people are going through and you never know who's dealing with substance issues and it's, let's be positive and try to be proactive rather than negative and making fun of people for not drinking or taking shots or whatever the case may be. I love that. Still include the people in on the group stuff because you know what, there's nothing worse than saying no and then being left out half the time we're doing this stuff for the social aspect of it. Maybe it's not always to get drunk, right? Maybe it's not always to take the edge off. Maybe it's just that social aspect of everybody getting together and doing a shot together or having a drink together and saying cheers or whatever it might be in a celebratory way. So that's great advice from you to still include those people in some way and don't shun them away at all. All right, let's move on to another topic. I think this is something that you and I talk about a lot and we've had some conversation with some of our DJs where there's a lot of pressure right now to like quote unquote make it, right? Like you see all the TikTok people and people are putting out like, here's my tour and here's my new music and here's this big thing that I'm doing and you hear all of us talking about content is king, you have to be creating music and you have to be doing this but. Guys, like it's okay to just wanna be a local DJ. Like it's okay to just wanna be a DJ on the side too. And I think I'm not as good in getting that point across as some other people, but talk about that and like talk about some of the conversations you've had recently. Well, I'm a huge proponent of this because this is me. This describes me to a T. I love to be a good local DJ, right? And not just good, I wanna be the best local DJ that there is, right? And that's okay. I don't want, and this was 10 years ago that I decided I don't need to be anything more than this, right? I loved my teaching job. And I think that's a huge part of it too. Like if you really love your day job and obviously DJing pays really well, no matter if you're a local DJ or not, it still pays well. It probably pays better than your, your nine to five in some cases. Um, you know, it's okay to just do both. It's okay to think, okay, like I'm ready to do my nine to five and I'm ready to go play my Friday night and Saturday night set and I'm a happy person. Maybe that money goes toward retirement. Maybe that money goes toward your rent or mortgage, whatever it might be. I have always been a huge proponent of this due to the fact that it is me. I liked, and I like the fact that you're the yang of that and you're the aspiring touring DJ, right? So that's, and I've had some conversations recently that. have really kind of like opened my eyes to, and made me real proud to talk to these guys, knowing that at this point in their career, they're like, okay, I want to take a step back and focus on my career career, my non-DJ career. And, you know, kind of asked why, you know, the people that I have talked to about this, I kind of asked why, and I think some people just see the writing on the wall as I did, where it's like, well, production's not really my thing because production was never my thing, right? And I knew like, I tried to get into it, I was bored with it, I didn't like it. And I was like, well, if I'm not gonna produce, I'm not gonna become a traveling DJ. So it's like, all right, well, the writing's on the wall, let me take a step back. And then it's just do the things that you need to do to be successful within your local market, right? And we're lucky enough. in the Northern New Jersey area to have also New York City. It's kind of having two markets in one little area. So go about like conquering that market in the best way possible that you can. And I think that can you be the best DJ in that market? Do that. That should be your goal. Right. And then if you get to go or kind of go play like a show two hours away or three hours away or, you know, like I got to go play Atlantic City a few times, like that was fine. Like, you know, and that was fun. And that kind of like wets the whistle a little bit. And then, you know, go back and do your thing and just, like I said, be the, new place opens in your market that's really, really great. Go try to headline that place. You know, just try to stay on top of your home base. I think that's a very mature outlook. And I think as a younger DJ, it's harder to say, to give up on that bigger dream necessarily and be like, oh, I'm just gonna do my local market stuff. And to the people who are aware of, hey, like this is where I fit in and I'm okay with that. Like all the props to those people because it's not easy to do, right? It's not. And I respect those people that can be like, listen, I... I like my nine to five, I wanna keep doing it. I love DJing also, and I wanna DJ a lot, but it's okay if I'm just playing in New Jersey, or if it's okay if I'm just playing in New York City. I respect that, you know? And I think that's where there's the biggest disconnect, is not enough people who wanna be like this big touring artist understand like, well, where am I in the market right now, right? Do I, at what point do I even deserve to be in the conversation to go do the biggest gigs in my own market, let alone the gigs outside of your market that you want to go book. Like there are less and less big bottle service rooms every month, every year. Right. Where there's way less and DJs like myself who've been in the game for a while and DJs like Chachi and Rick Wonder and Conflict and all these DJs who have been doing this at a high level for a long time. Like. until they go away and they give up their spots, it's going to be very hard to knock those people off that, off of where they are. And Conflict talked about this on his podcast this week, and it's like, we were built in a different era, right? We were built in this open format era where we had to be good at everything. And we are good at most things, most genres, right? Like, whereas the younger DJ is like, many of these... DJs have come up and they only want to play house and that's what they do and they can't play a reggae set from the early 2000s or a 2000 hip hop set. So there's a lot less opportunity for the younger DJs to move quickly. I think that we talked about this a little bit offline. I'm gonna bring this here. It's always been this way. It has been this way since I started when I was 17. I highlighted Richie Santana was doing all of the house music spots that I wanted to do in New Jersey, he was the guy at. Right? And he was producing at that time and doing all that. all the stuff that he needed to do to play all of those big rooms. I'm trying to think of some of the other guys that were prominent back then, when I was like 20, 21 that were playing like all of the shore spots. And it wasn't just DJs and headliner, like there was. 10 shore spots, 10, you know, I'm thinking back to Temptations and XS and Surf Club and still DJs and all of those places. every market and there was three times more of the big rooms than there are right now at least three times those guys were 32 to 40 years old playing those rooms. It wasn't the 21 year old kid playing. I remember there was a kid that came up and he was 17 years old and he headlined Webster Hall. His name's alluding me right now, but he was, that was like so outlier ish. It was so weird. If you were anywhere between 17 and 20, you were playing a big room. It was highlighted on the flyer, like 20 year old, 21 year old, whoever. coming in. Like here, like, you know, like 17 year old, it was 17 year old, not even illegal to be in the room, but was DJing. You know, it was, it was so weird to do. I still think it's a little weird. Like I, I. Well, think about it, who are the handful of young DJs that kind of moved really quick, like Nikki Riz comes to mind New York City, Angela, the kid comes to mind, right? There aren't a ton of those guys, like it's very rare to be one of those guys. But I mean, think about it. I can still remember that kid and that was in like 1998. You know what I mean? Like that's how rare it is. Like you could pick them out on two hands where you like, you go and play the biggest rooms in your area and you're very young still. And I'm not saying you do it once, guys. Listen to me. Just because you might have gotten a break and you get to go play a venue once. doesn't mean you're now a headliner DJ. That's not what that means. You know, if you're headlining every single weekend or every other weekend at the biggest rooms in your market, then you're a headliner DJ, right? Just because you got a crack at playing one spot, you know, maybe a couple times in a year, two or three times in a year, doesn't make you a headlining DJ. listen, from where I was sitting, I was traveling a little, right? You're not a travel DJ unless you're traveling every month to go DJ, you know? And even now, it's like, I'm traveling most months, but not every month, not every week, not three times a month. It's like once a month, maybe twice kind of thing. Right, you'd consider yourself like kind of a traveling DJ. Right, sort of, like not a traveling DJ. like on a chisel or a Rick Wonder level in any way. Right, right. And so the same concept applies to calling yourself a headliner DJ, right? This goes back to what we were talking about before. It's a lot of just self-reflection and knowing who you are and knowing where you stand. I think that's a big portion of it. And understanding You know, I do play some big, big rooms, but I don't, I don't play them all the time. And, you know, maybe I can go sharper my skills in these rooms and, and understanding, you know, what you need to do then to take that next step. Here's an exercise that I'm gonna give you guys. And we probably talked about this around the same time last year. But it's a great time to reflect on your year and start planning your next year. So like you said, ask yourself, like who am I as a DJ, as a producer, as an artist? Where am I in the market currently right now? Be realistic. Don't sugarcoat it. Ask one of your DJ friends, right? Where am I in the market? Who do you compare me to? Name some other DJs. If you're not in the top tier of your market, then maybe go and look at what is the top tier person in my market doing? What is Rick Wonder doing? What is, you know, whoever is in your market, what is that person doing that makes them successful? And how do I get from what I'm doing currently to where I need to be, right? Like, if you wanna be where Rick is, well, what is Rick doing and what can you do to do the same thing, you know? Like, take it. Take someone that you see at sort of the top of the mountain and use that person as a guide or like a way to create the, you know, the, I can't think of the name. Think about the guide, think about how you can create this life that you wanna create and what are the things you need to be doing to get there? Right. I think that's great advice. I mean, I think that's, you can end the conversation right there because that is exact. That is what you should be doing. Right. That like you create that roadmap, figure out who that, who that is that you can replicate, whose roadmap can you replicate to get to where you want to be, to get to where they were. Right. Of course. you know, you have to do it in your own way, but at least you can have a guide as to how to be successful, you know? And you see it, we've talked to a bunch of the DJs. If you wanna be the big travel touring artist DJ, there's a roadmap of all the things you have to do. And it's fucking hard, and it's every single day, and it's a lot of work. So if that's what you wanna be, you have to commit to doing all the work that it's gonna take to get there. You can't just expect it to happen. You can't look at your peers and be like, well, this person did this, and I'm as good of a DJ as that person, so I'm gonna do this too. It doesn't work that way, guys. There are no days off. If you wanna make it, if you wanna be the top of anything, any field, anything, there are no days off. You can't sit back and rest on your laurels. You have to innovate, you have to keep pushing your brands or marketing yourself and whether you're in an office, whether you're a DJ, whatever it is, like you have to do. everything that it takes to make it because it nothing's given to you. Right. It doesn't matter. Yeah. This all looks easy. It looks easy from an outsider's perspective. It's just not and you don't meet a lot of people. You and I, we don't meet a lot of people that do the everyday stuff that it takes. Sure. There's luck involved a thousand percent. Don't ever think that that's not part of it. That's a huge part of it. But you, in order to get quote unquote lucky, you need to continue to do what you need to do. So like, you know, it's, you make that luck, right, exactly. out enough music and content and you're doing enough, people are gonna start to notice and those opportunities are gonna start showing up. I like it. All right, we got to end here guys, because I got to jump off. I have a zoom that I'm already late for, but Gary and I wanted to sneak out one last podcast here before the holiday. So, you know, it's everybody that celebrates Christmas. I hope you guys have a great Christmas. Take some time off, spend some time with your fam. Um, and we'll see, I don't know what our podcasting schedule is, but if we don't talk to you before the new year, we're going to do a year end podcast for sure. And, uh, Gary and I have some pretty cool ideas for that show. So. Gare, you got anything else? That's it, just Merry Christmas, Happy New Year everybody. Be safe out there. Don't do anything I wouldn't do, so, all right? All right guys, peace.