Is Nightlife Trending Down? 📉

On this episode of The Get Down Cream and Gary discuss:

• State of nightlife nationally and how to stay booked during slow season.
• How to leverage booking cancellations and improve your relationships with owners and bookers.
• Tech Talk About New Serato Software, Stems & When You Should Update Your Hard Drive & DJ Software

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Transcript

0:01

All right, what's up guys? Welcome to the 139th episode of the Get Down, brought to you by Digital Music Pool. Wow, stumbled out the gate here. My name is Cream. I can't read that via here. Doing it, we're doing it. I know for real. Celebrated a birthday over the weekend, happy birthday. Thank you, sir. Yes, it was a relatively light showing for my birthday. I feel like in years past, especially when I'm younger, I was using that birthday to get those high-end bookings that I could get. As all of you guys should do, bring the fact that your birthday's on a certain date. Like if you're working on your, if you're a February baby right now. Reach out to the venues that you either are really trying to get into or that you play once in a while that are high end and be like, yo, it's my birthday this day. I can probably bring some people out to celebrate with me kind of thing. Yeah, I was gonna say the likelihood of your friends coming out to celebrate is higher, definitely. Or the likelihood of anybody coming out to hang out while your DJ is higher on your birthday. So it is a little value prop. Yeah, yeah, so like I did the I played birch on Friday, which I normally play on Saturdays So that was a little bit different, but that was cool I wanted to get out there and play a set and then I actually took off Saturday to Go to dinner with what's the fam and my girl and a couple people? I Did have plans. I had tickets to go to Elro, but in like pure old man fashion We had a super long dinner had some drinks had some wine lots of food I got home and was like, yeah, I don't think I'm making it out to Brooklyn. I was like, man, that is just so, that's just typical. That's an amazing story. And that's why I wanted to, I wanted you to share that today, cause it's real funny because I, you said it like red wine and steak at dinner and that's it. It's a wrap going home. Yeah, it just was what it was. We chalked it up as an L and we're gonna move forward. Our plan was to come on here and talk about L-Roe and what a cool experience and all the cool things that they do to create a vibe. They're selling an experience more so than they're selling the DJs that are on the lineup. Yes, there's dope DJs, producers on the lineup, but it's more about experiencing the L-Roe thing. Right, right. I wish I went to experience it. We considered going for like an hour, a couple hours. All we had to do was get there, right? Because once you're there, you're there. But it just didn't happen, unfortunately. is such a bitch from Jersey. I know that sounds ridiculous, because distance wise it's not so bad, but like driving out there, remember when we used to drive out there after the club back in the day, and it would take, I felt like forever to get there. When we, what were those rooms? hours, late night, you know, it's not so bad. We used to go to Pasha first, but then in Brooklyn we used to go to Output. That was the big one, but like TBA was another spot we would pop up to, Shimansky. output was the main go-to. Is that the Panther Room? Is that what it was called? That was a fantastic room. That was my favorite music was played in that room. Oh man, but yeah. So yeah, Brooklyn's a pain in the ass sometimes. And that's why people from Brooklyn don't come to Jersey either. My buddy used to live out there and it was always a pain in the ass coming back the other way. So we always say like, oh, you wanna play like real house music, you wanna play. Dope stuff go out to Brooklyn to play but like if you're from Jersey, it's a trek Yeah, definitely not ideal. So, yeah, that was my weekend, pretty light, family dinner Sunday, like super light, but I planned for it that way and that was part of my planning for December. I've been talking about taking some time off at the end of the month, which I think we'll get into a little bit as we start to talk about sort of the state of nightlife and things that we can do to plan moving forward. But yeah, I wanted to take some time off. We worked really, really hard this year, man. Like... as DJ producer, as an owner of Get Down, and a mentor of DJs, doing the podcast, doing the Hoboken Hospitality Entertainment Director thing, like it's been a crazy year. And I feel like I deserve to take some time off here for my birthday and for the holidays. And that's what I'm gonna do, so. You've been, yeah, you've been pretty stacked. You know, those two extra things that you deal with that I don't really, it's a lot, it's time consuming. Like the production and the artist cream and the whole book and hospitality director stuff, it's a lot. So yeah, it's a good opportunity. is. It's hard to juggle. It's been tough at points. I think we're really efficient in what we do and we're able to accomplish a lot from day to day. So, you know, on the get-out side of things, it's pretty good. But it's a challenge, man. I wanna be producing more music, guys, for sure. I wanna be producing more music. It's one of the things that I really like to do and I love putting out content and promoting content. but it's just been one of those things that's kind of fallen by the wayside a little bit in comparison to all the things we're doing. So it's a goal to work on it more, we'll see. Let's get into that state of nightlife that you're just talking about. Let's look, what's... I haven't been up, guys, I haven't DJ'd in four... I haven't been there since November 1st. I flew out of there November 1st. That was the last weekend I played, so I've been out of the nightlife loop in our market up in Jersey, New York City for that long. So talk to me. I hear that, you know, we've taken some lumps. over the last couple weeks as far as crowds showing up and the weather's changed obviously the weather's changed considerably since I left I think I think it's gotten much colder up there correct me if I'm wrong. winter. It's officially winter now. Oh God, I'm not looking forward to this. It's been rough and I don't think it's just our market where it's been rough. And I really think just at the end of the day, there's a lot less total people that are going out from week to week. The fact that our New York City football teams are not very good hurts us as well on Sundays. First eight weeks of the season, usually every year, pretty good. And then after that, depending on how good our teams are, is how good our Sundays are. But I think the overall issue at the moment is just less people are coming out on any given night, whether it's a Friday, whether it's a Saturday, or it's a Sunday. And that's the big issue. I think football, football Sundays have went a little deeper this year than normal, even though the both teams had sucked, right? Like usually it's week eight and it's like, all right, like we're starting to see cancellations guys get cut after the first game, things like that. We really only saw that. This past weekend was the first cancellations I've that we've had for football Sunday, um, in w with the threat that there was going to be no crowds out. Right. So. I think that went deeper, but does that mean that people are going out to day drink or more inclined to go out and day drink than they are to go out at night? Like why are people just not going out? Is that weather change really, really affecting? I know it's not just our market, so we can't just blame, let's say, the weather. We've talked about it time and again. There's... been talking to a lot of DJs from other markets and everybody's feeling the same pain. I talk to Arm in Boston, I talk to Bobby Boucher out in Cleveland, Will Grayley from DC, I just got off the phone with him. The guys in Philly, Smooth, like, a lot of what I do behind the scenes is kind of trying to talk to other people booking DJs in other markets, and it's a similar story, I think, across the board where... There's less people out. And I don't think there's one particular reason. I think it's a handful of reasons, right? The cost of living right now is absolutely insane. Cost of renting, cost of homes. That's the number one driver, I think, right now. Yes, I agree with that. It's because it's so expensive to go out. Like I go out and have a couple cocktails and it's a 60, 75, $100 night quickly, like in a very short period of time. I couldn't imagine going out and like, quote unquote, binge drinking, ripping shots, and you know, doing all those things that you do when you're 21 to 28, and then doing it on a fixed budget, and then having to worry about these astronomical rent prices. across the country it's bad. It's bad here in Orlando, it's bad in New York City, and it's bad in Jersey City and Hoboken. And you know, everywhere the rents have gotten out of control. So I couldn't imagine at a younger age trying to like pedal like we've said in episodes past $12 for high noon or 11 bucks for high noon. And then be able to pay your bills after that. It's almost not fathomable. It's almost not realistic. Yeah, I don't, the overall cost of all goods sold, right? So no matter what it is, food costs for restaurants, you know, the price of alcohol I'm sure is more expensive. I just bought a Christmas tree yesterday. The exact same Christmas tree I bought last year was like, it was $40 more expensive this year. Same place, same size tree, same style of a tree, $40 more this year. So. All of those higher costs of goods and services and things are also, you know, the venues are feeling that too. And they're passing off some of that cost to the end consumer. And that's why we're seeing, you know, $12 high noons and $20 vodka sodas. And that's not just in the nightclubs. That's in your regular bars too, you know? I've seen the TikToks and the videos and the complaints from customers of our local bars. that aren't booking like top-end DJ talent that don't have the best sound, that don't have the best anything, great spots, good experience, 20 plus dollars for a vodka soda. Like, so. how are these places gonna weather this storm though? That's what I don't understand, or are they going to be able to weather the storm? This is just showing that there's a huge difference. The people that own those buildings, they're in a different financial stratosphere than the rest of us, and that divide is growing more and more and more. Do these do? bigger spots start to go away because you just can't afford those big rents. And those places are just going to turn into apartments and things like that. Like we've seen in years past, you know, we, we saw it happen in the early two thousands where a lot of major nightclubs went away and where those major nightclubs existed are now high end luxury apartments. Right. And that's kind of what happens because you can make more money doing those, you know, as somebody who might own one of those those pieces of land or one of those buildings, it makes more financial sense and there's less liability in going that route, the residential route. a couple questions there. I mean, I think owners of venues are in a different socioeconomic place than your average 21, 20 year old customer, right? Like, I think the people who are doing, are successful right now in making money are fine, you know? But I think, like you said, there is a wider gap between the people who are in really good places and the people who aren't in very good places. And that middle isn't as... large, I think. And I think that middle is a lot of where you see our customers come from, right? Like those are the people that are going out every weekend and spending money and going to the bar and stuff. So I think that's to answer your first part. The second part is, are these places going to go away? I personally think that the high end experience, bringing artists, bringing producers, ticket seller places that are going to try and create this really cool experience, I think they can be successful. And then I think like the very low brow... shot in a beer, super cheap, excuse me, like cheap drinks, no cover, no dress code, like I think those places are survived too. I think it's the places in the middle that aren't really sure where they sit in the spectrum that are in the biggest risk of going away. What do you think about that? Yeah, I agree with that, but it's the, I think those middle places that don't know where they're at, that's, we've talked about this time and again, it's an identity issue, and you have to establish your identity and what you wanna be, and you're either gonna step it up and you're going to create more of an experience for your customer to bring them back time and again, you're gonna lower your prices maybe, you know? You have to kind of think about all these aspects, what's going to bring people through the door. and keep them as repeat customers, right? And charging $20 for a vodka soda is not it. That's just not it. Like, people are not going back to that place. I mean, I can tell you right now, there's a spot down here that I would go to often. And I went back like two or three times. Actually, you and I, we went and had a drink over at that bar over here. And... The one time I ordered like a Manhattan, it was like 25 bucks. And I'm like, I'm never going back to this bar again. That's too fucking much money. Like there's, there are way too many other options. And I think sometimes, sometimes I think bar ownership gets caught up in, well, my rent is X amount of dollars. So, and this is the experience I'm trying to portray. So this is how much my cocktail has to be. Well, you're steering away customers, like at least have like a really good happy hour or like provide something else, you know, Yeah. I'm just thinking of way too many places that, you know, management isn't present to be, you know, shaking hands with all the people that walk in the place or, you know, providing that, like, homey experience. And you're charging all this money and you're not getting anything out of it. You know, I think the days of just opening your doors and, you know, selling, just selling food and drink, I think those days are gone. It's providing experience. Everybody... that looks at Yelp reviews and Google reviews and all that stuff. And you have to set yourself apart. If you don't set yourself apart, like people are just not going to show up. Right? You brought up experience and good hospitality. And we've hammered those points home so much on this podcast. But I do think that is so important. And it's the same thing, right? Those places that are focused on high-end experience, right? Think about what people are spending their money on.$800, $1,000 Drake tickets and Taylor Swift tickets and Beyonce. and going to the Mirage to go see John Summit or Chris Lake, people are willing to spend up to go and experience these once in a quarter type things, or experience artists that they really enjoy seeing. They're willing to spend that money. Those people aren't going out Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They're picking one day and one experience to go do. So they're gonna pick the option that's most intriguing to them. And going to your store, run-of-the-mill bar to buy a $20 vodka soda is not... It's the... That's on the low end of the totem pole, right? Like, is it, go spend $200 to go have a night out at your average venue in New York City, right? Or Hoboken or whatever market you're in. Or spend $200 on a ticket to go see Chris Lake at the Mirage. Like, that's an easy decision to me, no? And I think people are just smartening up to that. And they're telling venues and they're telling our market They want, you know, they want experience. They don't want the $20 vodka soda that they can make in their apartment for a dollar. Yeah, I'm thinking about an experience that we both just had at a pretty high-end restaurant. It was an experience. It wasn't just going to dinner, right? There was presentation. The waiter was extremely knowledgeable about everything on the menu, and he was just a great personality. Not even on a nightlife scale, on all scales. People want to go out and have a full good experience. Even there, even the mocktails at the place that we went to were ornate, full blown experiences that were like, you know, one was called, what was it called, like something in the forest, right? And it comes out like in this piece of bark and like all this presentation was wild. looks like there's moss and mushrooms and all this cool stuff. like that's what people look. That's what people want to do now. You know, it's, it's not, and the, and then when you want to go out and have a, a shot and a beer, you are going to go to those dive bars. Cause that's. place in a hoodie, sweats, and like my Crocs on a Saturday afternoon and watch a football game, get a burger, and have a couple brews. Like that's the different, that's the spectrum I'm talking about. I think these middle of the road don't know what they are or trying to be in both worlds, just don't, it just doesn't work. Right. It's kind of like if those high end, if you want to be high end and you're going to do bottle service, well, you got to fully commit into doing that bottle service, right? And you got to, you have to do it. People are going to pay money for that experience. We have to create the experience within the bottle service, right? Um, I, an amazing time when they're there so that they want to come back. And then they want to tell their friends about what a great experience they had. I think maybe sometimes those people, those places that are in the middle, that maybe you do push yourself into being a bottle service venue, a bottle service club or spot, and then create an experience around that bottle service. Getting, you're right, getting stuck in the middle just isn't, it's not an option anymore. Yeah, you can't just open up and sell drinks. It's just not it. Especially if you're having like a DJ and there's a dance floor and things like that. Like, I don't know. But then I think of other places that are bar, more bar, they look, they come off more as bars without having a dance floor. Like that's a little more difficult. And I'm thinking like Tally Ho and Mills Tavern, places like that, that we book. It's a little harder to come up with like a plan around how to make that a different experience. Right, I don't want to get super local on everybody, but you know, you mentioned two bars, but I'm gonna mention another bar that we have nothing, I'm gonna mention another bar we have nothing to do with that's very successful in our market, and it's Texas, Arizona in Hoboken, where it is a little more expensive to get in there. Drinks are a little more expensive, but they just upgraded all their sound, they upgraded all their lighting. They're in a great location. They're trying to do something. And they're trying to advance the experience where you're getting better sound, you're getting better lighting. Maybe you're getting better DJs. I'm not sure who they're putting in there right now. But they're at least trying to elevate the experience. They're never gonna be a bottle service venue, but they can be a really cool high-end bar that is better sound, better lighting, better DJs than all the other... bars in the town kind of thing, you know? And I think that's how you stand out as someone that's in the middle. You try to elevate that experience in those other ways. Yeah, I think that's a good point to make. Big shout to them, they did a great job in their sound system, sounds incredible in there. But yeah, those are good points. I guess looking at it, that is what you need to do. You have to do the sound thing, you have to do the lighting thing. That's... I guess, I mean, the hospitality portion of it is the next thing that you need, that you need. You need to have a front facing manager or owner that's going to be there every night that, that repeat customers recognize and feel comfortable going there and saying what's up to them and feel comfortable that's in that space. There's gotta be a leader and someone driving the ship and... explaining to staff and customers why all these different things are important, right? And why the customer experience is so important. And I think all these venue owners just need to understand, hey, there's less people coming out, period. That's like, we all know that's true. How do we capture the people that are coming out? And that's the question that every owner should be having with their managers and their staff right now if they want to survive the winter. Because literally, that's how I look at it. We, to me, there are gonna be venues that aren't here by April, for sure. Cause that's just the state of where we're at right now. And it's, it's not being negative, it's just the truth is how I look at it. the economy is gonna dictate that big time and it's already started. And I was just thinking about something that Chris Kinzel said on the podcast. And I think if there are owners or managers listening to this right now, you have to treat every customer like they're your last. You know what I mean? You wanna keep every customer. And you wanna make sure that those customers come back. because if you have them in your place right now, you have to battle to get them back next time, the next time they go out. And make your place memorable and make them come back every week. It's gotta be exhausting, I'm sure it's not the easiest thing to do, but you kinda have to go around at every table and make sure everybody's comfortable and everybody's happy. And that your staff, your staff is so, you better hammer it home to your staff that they better be overly nice to everybody. because it's all of that, because that's the quickest way to lose a customer. You have some, you know, shit bartender that's got an attitude that day because they're dealing with whatever they're dealing with. And then that attitude gets passed on to the, the patron and that person's not coming back and you can't afford to have people not come back right now. So let's talk about, there's a few more angles to hit on this topic, right? This is a big deal. This is literally what's happening for all of us right now in our industry. It's this overarching, like, it's not that great. It's the worst that I can remember, definitely since COVID, but it's the worst that I can remember in a long time. I don't know. There was some years like right before COVID where things were slowing down and getting a little tough as well. You know, maybe because this is a little more obviously recent, we're currently living it that it feels worse than it was back then. But it's been a, this is supposed to be our busiest quarter of the entire year. The fall in tri-state New York city is always our busiest time. And, you know, looking at the numbers of some of the venues and, and talking to owners, it just doesn't seem like that's the case and. If it's slow right now, I think we're in trouble for January and February when it usually always gets way slower. I don't know if you were DJing yet. Do you remember the recession and the housing market crash and how nightlife was affected by that back in like 07? 07, 08, yeah, yeah. so I didn't start DJing in Nightlife till 2010, so. Okay, well, we had a little bit of a slowdown, but we also didn't, we still, we weren't dealing with people being obsessed with experience, right? You could still kind of just have good music, have a decent sound system, doesn't have to be great, lighting was whatever, you know, you could have it or not. Things slowed, but it was... it was a little easier to navigate because all you needed to do was put out a decent product. Right now, you're dealing with, the owners are dealing with high rents and then the cost of everything, like you were saying, is exponentially, it's crazy. So if you wanna put a new sound right now, it's extremely expensive. You wanna put a new lighting right now, it's extremely expensive. You wanna put in like a... and the labor is expensive. it's all very, you know, you want to put in a wall, like a special wall that, you know, and put a neon on or whatever you might want to do for like an Instagramable or tick talkable thing. You know, it's expensive. It's all expensive. Um, and that's what I think a lot of owners are dealing with where they're like, okay, I want to provide a better experience, but at what cost, at what point does this just sink the ship? You know what I mean? And then it's kind of, you're battling with, you're either you're in or you're out. You're either trying to kind of stay status quo and try to weather the storm or You're going to spend a lot of money and try to bring new business. Is pros and cons, right? Pros and cons to both of those things. It's a scary time, for sure. Something we do have... sorry, it's a different time than it was 15 years ago when this happened where, like I said, you can put out a decent product and just survive. Yeah, it's really hard to compare. We're in completely different worlds. It's just completely different, you know? So, in experiences we do all have coming up or should have coming up in every market here is, you know, the SantaCon or the Hobe, you know, whatever you call it in your market, but the Christmas bar crawl, the Santa bar crawl that's gonna happen everywhere in the next couple weeks here. I think this is gonna be like, I think it's gonna be really good. I think because it checks all those boxes, right? It's an experience, it's something people can circle on the calendar, they don't mind spending money because it's something that they look forward to, they know it's gonna be fun, they know it's gonna be busy. We have New York City SantaCon this Saturday and we have Hoboken SantaCon the following Saturday and I fully expect both of them to be really successful. What do you think? They are. It's reminiscent of Halloween and how popular that was. We saw it was absolutely insane. It's a great event. It's a community event. People are all dressing up, and you're there all for the same reason. To have a good time, dress up, get together with friends, especially over the holidays for sure. I think it's going to be extremely successful. And I do think that the bar businesses do lack in those in between weeks because of these events too. I feel like people have like, like you said, circled the calendar and they're like, okay, I want to go, uh, I'm going to really go hard that day, you know, and save all my, my money for that special experience. And that's why maybe you do have this little slowdown between, between the two. What can, what can bars do? in the off night and the off months when you don't have these things. You know, like I feel like that can be a thought. Like what kind of events can bars throw in January and February in order to create a different experience? You know, it might not be a crawl or something like that, but, you know, I think that's another good way to start thinking about generating business on off months. To give you guys a little, just a little understanding of what this bar crawl is in Hoboken specifically, previously there was a company that would come in and sell these tickets and create this bar crawl and partner with the venues. Now, a bunch of the venue owners came together to partner on this deal. So this is a venue owner driven event that they all promote and they all share the proceeds of. And, you know. Get Down DJs is all about collaboration to help grow, right? I think this is something that I love. I love to see it because it's gonna be successful. And I think if venue owners and cities and areas that are trying to drive this hospitality and nightlife, which many cities aren't, but at least the venue owners try and collaborate with some of the other venues just to kind of take advantage of... these customers that are coming out, and I don't mean take advantage of it in a negative way, I just mean like, how do you capitalize on customers? How do you create an experience or a bar crawl or something like a SantaCon together that can get more bodies into the area for a night, right? So maybe this is something that venues can partner together or promotion companies can partner together, create the January whatever bar crawl. You can come up with whatever the idea is, right? Like... I don't know, the snowball or something. I don't know, like something ridiculous. I have no idea. This is not what I do, but. But, I mean, we see, Jerry City does it in August for their Pride Month. They, there's all the bars get together and they do like a Pride Bar crawl, which is awesome. It just, it generates business on these hours that people aren't usually in your place. And it's, there's usually like six or seven places and it doesn't even have to be that many, right? It could be four or five, three or four, four or five places. And it can be for a charity or it can be for whatever it might be. And it's themed and people walk around and they have fun with it and you can do this. It doesn't need to be Halloween. It doesn't need to be Christmas. You know, you could do this. It doesn't have to be every month. You can do it every other month, all year long. Yeah. Another idea I just had and football, right? NFL and college playoff and all that stuff is now happening here in January in the Super Bowl in early February. Maybe as a venue, you go all in on a day event right around the NFL playoffs. Maybe Wicked Wolf in Hoboken is a big sports bar nightlife venue. Their Sundays are the best around. They just had Tommy DeVito, the quarterback of the Giants to host on his bi-week, right? He's Tommy D videos like talk of the town jersey born, you know, throwing the throwing the this the Italian hand gesture out. That's his celebration. It's like, it connects with this Italian American jersey thing, right? Wicked Wolf had a great Saturday night that night, sold tables had reservations, they did cover That's an experience, right? Something different. People circle the calendar. They wanna go experience that. I think those are the things that venues and bookers and promoters and managers need to think about. Just think outside the box is really all it is. so what can all of our DJs who are listening do to survive through this time, to combat the slower months, to make it through to the spring, which is what many times we're trying to do, right? And this can go to the DJ that's maybe playing five, six nights a month, not fully booked out too. I think thinking about some of these things and maybe bringing some of these, bringing ideas to management and bringing ideas to ownership that, hey, maybe we can try and do this and not to say that you need to turn yourself into a promoter, but unfortunately, sometimes you have to start to make suggestions in order to further kind of your worth in the place. You need to show your value. Why are you important? Why do they need to work with you? That's how you guys need to be thinking. What can I do to show value to the places that I work at? However that is, maybe it's making flyers, maybe it's selling tables or bringing friends and making sure that your venue knows you're bringing friends, setting up open bars. Like you said. coming to the table with some ideas and some outside the box things that the venue can try. All of those things will further ingrain you with a venue and with a venue owner so that if things do get slow or if DJ nights start to get cut, your night is way less likely to get cut. Right, we've done this with venues in the past where we were seeing slow weekends and slow nights and it was like, well, alright, we have to start to show a little worth here or else we're going to be showing the door. And what happens then is that you buy yourself some time, number one. And number two, on those nights where it is super slow and the manager might want to come over and cut you, well, maybe he thinks about not cutting you because he's like, well, you know what? At least Cream came to the table with these ideas. and he brought a table or two out that they're hanging out tonight. I'm not gonna cut him tonight. You can't just show up to work during these slow months and slow weeks. You can't just show up and open your laptop and that's it. And think that you're valued and you can't be replaced. We're all replaceable at the end of the day. We say this time and again, we're all replaceable. It doesn't matter who you are, you're replaceable. Be the greatest fucking DJ that the place has ever seen. But if there's nobody in the room to DJ for, who cares? So you have to show up and bring some value to the table. And it's all of those things. It's ideas, it's having a great set, it's being personable with the patrons and the people that work there, and the manager and the owner, and just everything. It's the whole package. You really have to step up now. You know what another one is that's super under the radar that is very easy? Go clean the DJ booth. Go in early before you're set, go in on an off night, bring some cleaning products, and literally take everything apart, wrap unused wires, put them in a box, clean all the equipment, clean the DJ booth table, and make sure your owner knows that you're doing this stuff, right? Like that's such a little tiny thing that takes nothing but effort on your part, but will ingrain you with your owner and your venue and your manager, because you're going out of your way to do something to help the venue that's good for everybody involved. And that's just like the way that we all need to be thinking as far as how to ingrain ourselves with our venues. And guys, if you're a resident DJ and you're only playing one venue, I would be... concerned because if that venue goes away, what are you gonna do? So a couple things, I would probably start trying to create some other relationships at some other venues if you don't have them already. Number two, have some conversations with managers and if you have a tight relationship with the owner about how the venue's doing. So that if the venue's not doing very well, you can start planning ahead. I think a lot of times we know when a venue's not doing very well, right? Yeah. your DJ nights slow down, staff starts complaining, bartenders complain about not making money. And if you're hearing all these things and you're seeing these signs, it might be time to start trying to branch out and get involved with another venue that's doing well or doing better. It's a scary time of, January's always a scary time of year. No matter who you are or where you're at or what the climate is, it's a little more negative this year than it probably has been in the past. It's always scary, because there's always less gigs. You're making less money than you were in September and October, 1,000%. And I think preparing financially as well would be very smart. for January and February. I can't stress that enough, right? Like if you're tight on money and you're worried about getting through Christmas, like guys, it's okay to go do something else on top of DJing, right? Like even if the DJ thing is slowing down right now, it's gonna come back. So like it's all right to go have another side hustle. We talk about it all the time. I have fucking four side hustles. And I'll have four side hustles for my entire life. Unless I fucking... No matter what, honestly, like it's just who I am as a person. I just like to be busy and I like having my hands in a lot of different things, but... I don't know if we've talked about this in September and October, but that is the time where you need to put extra money, that extra money that you make, you got to put that away for January and February. If DJing is your main gig and that's the way you make money. I know we're past it now, we're like way past it now and it might be too late, but it's good thing to think about for next year that if you're making an extra $500 to $1,000 in September and October. put some of that on the side so you have it for January and February because it's always gonna slow down. Always, always, always. It has been doing it in my career for 20 years, 23 years, whatever it's been. It always slows in January. Just have that little something else on the side. I used to jam my December out to the max because there were so many opportunities for gigs in both nightlife and private events with all the corporate holiday parties. I used to bust my ass in December knowing that January and February were gonna be slower and just try to make as much money as possible to get through Christmas and then the slower January and February if my 10 gigs a month went down to four or five or whatever that number would be back then. I think I remember like a 20 you had like a 26 gig December once there's something insane something really insane like when we were younger. Yeah, there was a period of time where I had 20 to 30 gigs in many, many months. Yeah, I just remember that rundown. It looked insane. in store afternoon gigs. We have a booking at the airport in Newark that I used to do during the day on an afternoon, doubling up as much as possible, double Sundays, double Saturdays, work in Thursday and Sunday every single week. Did it. Don't want to do it anymore ever again, but did it. No, I forgot that you used to jam them out like that. That was a... be like holiday party Tuesday, holiday party Wednesday, and then regular nightlife Thursday through Sunday. I gotta go back in your, I don't know if you've like cleaned your old Instagram stuff up, but I gotta go back because one of those, one of those rundowns is insane, is like the most insane thing I've ever seen. It's probably more recent than you think, to be honest. Yeah, you're probably right. Probably like right before COVID type thing. 2016, 17, 18, somewhere in there. Yeah, it's something to go along with this actually, to go along with the slowing down of things. We touched on it I think a little bit, but I wanna talk about cancellations and dealing with them as they're happening. Whether you're getting canceled while you're DJing, because that happened to one of our guys two weeks ago, or you get canceled an hour before your gig, that happened to one of our guys this week. Number one question would be, can you get ahead of it? Because we go back and forth this all the time. We're like, okay, we know this Sunday's going to be dead, but we don't wanna reach out to the owner and say, hey, I think it's gonna be dead, and then take the money out of your pocket, right? You don't wanna do that. You don't wanna voluntarily do that, ever. But you... giving them an opening to cancel the DJ, whether it's yourself or someone else. So if you're quote unquote getting ahead of it, that's not the way to do it. I think the getting ahead of it is the prepare yourself mentally, financially, that hey, this time of year, there's a chance that this gig doesn't go through. And I'm talking about extra money gigs usually, meaning Sunday afternoons, maybe if you do a Thursday or Friday happy hour. Like those are the ones that go away first. Those gigs go away first. The Friday and Saturday night gigs usually won't, they usually don't move too much, right, percentage-wise. It's the happy hour gig on Friday, it's the Sunday football gig that local teams absolutely blow, and I don't know if it's gonna be very good here today. Those are the gigs that you need to think about. The brunch gigs on Saturday afternoon that maybe brunch is slowed up in the last month, those are the ones you have to be like, okay, well. I have to be ready for the venue to cancel me for this. And can I financially sustain that? Right, and I think that's the way you get ahead of it. Now, you can have a conversation around cancellation fees too. If you showed up to work, you should get paid half at least. I don't care if you DJ for an hour. I think you should get paid half. You blocked out that time to not get booked somewhere else. of another booking. Right. So you took that booking and you held that time for that venue. So you should get paid at least half. If you get paid, if you get canceled an hour before, how do you go about that? Is that a, what does that discussion look like with the owner in your eyes? get it canceled an hour before, you're gonna tell them that, listen, I'm on my way, I already left my house, I'm on my way to the gig kind of thing. It's really hard, man. It really, it comes down to a couple things, right? Is this a relationship that you value? Is this the place that you work at regularly and wanna continue working at? If that's the case, you say, listen, man, it sucks that you're canceling me an hour before, I'm already on my way, like in the future, can we have a little bit of a heads up? And next time I'm going to have to charge a cancellation fee kind of thing. I think that's a good way to handle it. If it's someone that you want to continue working with, if you're just booking gigs and you're like, well, I don't really work with these people and they're canceling me, I'd be like, no, I'm on my way. I blocked this time out to work this event. and I wanna work the event or I wanna get paid for my time. I could've booked something else and made the same amount of money. So you're taking money out of my pocket. I think no matter what you need to explain, you're taking money out of my pocket because I could've booked something else. There's a nice way to do that and you have to figure out the words of how to do that. Normally you just say something like, I value our relationship, I appreciate all the bookings over the years. you know, this kind of sucks because I could have booked something else and made my money. It's Christmas time, I'm trying to save money to whatever, you know? Whatever's happening in your life and how you explain it. I think explaining to them that like, this hurts and I need that money because it's, I plan on having that money when I say yes to the gig with you. Right. Yeah. it's not fair. And I think a lot of times the owners look at it like, well, we work with this person a lot, so you need to understand, but I don't, you know, I don't believe in that personally. It's sticky, it's a sticky situation, and it's easy to get pissed off about it from Jump Street, right? As soon as you're getting canceled, or you're getting that text message or phone call that says, hey, we're not gonna be so busy, it always starts at that, we're not gonna be so busy today, so you know it's coming, I think you need to check your emotions, number one, because that can get you in trouble quickly. You don't wanna react in a negative way. And all the things that you said, are the things that you need to have in your back pocket when responding to the person who's canceling you. Right? So it's, you know, I appreciate the bookings. It's being appreciative of the relationship that you've had, if you've had a relationship with this booker or manager, and, you know, spinning that positively, and then explaining why it's hurting you financially. Right? I think it's very, I've been in situations where guys get like heated off the jump and you understand it because it's, you know, in some cases a lot of money and it can change the trajectory of your month financially, whether that's making rent or whatever it might be. And then I think the ownership will think twice about canceling you the next time or get ahead of it more than an hour, maybe a week, maybe two weeks, this way that you can then go. possibly get another booking. So that, I think that's a big part of it too, because you don't want to burn a bridge. hey, I'll accept this cancellation. It still sucks for all the reasons why we just explained. But can you throw me an extra booking next month? Like in a slow January? Maybe you can fill out your calendar in one of these slower months in January and February with an extra booking somewhere. If you're canceled, you want to try and recoup that booking somehow. So if you're booked twice a month every month, try and get a third for the next month or one of the next couple months. I think that's another way. This happens on the high end too, Gary. Like, you know, the weather's bad and we want to cancel a big headliner at a venue. And it's like, hey, listen, like, I'm sorry, but the weather's shit, all of our tables canceled. Like, we have to cancel you. And if there's no contract, it is what it is. And again, you hope that the venue tries and makes it up to you in another way, whether it's a higher rate the next time, whether it's... double bookings, but if you want to keep that relationship, you just kind of have to go with it and make it work. Agreed. All right, let's transition into, let's get a little tech talk going, because we don't do this ever on this show. I know you and I aren't always on top of the tech, but I think something. guys in the DJ world. That's for sure. No, but something that's real basic that we all have used for many, many years is like Serato's update just came out, right? And now I know you won't, and I'm gonna let you talk about it, you won't switch over to this update until a certain point. And I'll let you talk about why for obvious reasons, but I just think it'll be a fun conversation. And then I wanna talk about some of the features that are... that have come along with this Serato update, which I'm actually looking forward to. But tell us why you won't switch right over to this new update on Serato software. Serato generally does a pretty good job of saying, hey DJs, it's safe to make the jump kind of thing, or it's safe to use this on this OS. Any conversation we have with Serato updates, it kind of goes hand in hand with the Mac OS updates. And personally, just like anything else, I kind of like, when new tech comes out, I kind of like to let the kinks and the bugs get worked out over a period of time before I move to the newest version. And I do think it's important to be on newer versions. I don't think I need to be the first guy to do it. You know, like, I wanna give it three months or six months for, like I said, the kinks get worked out so that I don't have a dropout in an important, huge gig where there's 2,000 people in front of me. Like, I can't have that as a DJ. right, right. like I said, Serato does a really good job. They totally, they understand, like, we can't put something out if there's gonna be dropouts and issues for our DJs, you know? Because that's the worst possible thing that can happen during a set is the music shut off. So, yeah, so I'm not moving to the newer version for a bit. Like 3.1 came out, I'll probably move when like 3.2 or 3 comes out to 3.0 type thing. Yeah. when you go from like a round number to the next round number if you're going from 3.1 to 3.11 like sure that's fine The major change has already happened so I think DJ is like if you're on 2.6 or 2.7 Serato you need to be on at least 3.0 and The same thing with your OS right what Sonoma just came out like you need to be at a minimum I'd say two OS is back so you should every DJ here should be on Monterey And if you're not on Monterey because your computer can't handle it, you should go buy a new computer because you're not doing what's best for you as a business and as a DJ. Yeah, that's always a good barometer, right? If your computer can't keep up with the updated software, then it's time to get a new computer. Which is very simple. makes your computer go so slow that it's not working, then you need a new computer. And if you're not willing to invest in buying a new computer, then you're not a professional, is how I look at it. Like, I get it, they're expensive and it costs money, but they have programs for zero interest and 12 months no payments and all this stuff that you can go figure out. Or you could buy a used one. that, that's a great, always a great option, a refurb, that's always a great option. I mean, listen, I have an air that it wasn't, it wasn't a ton of money, like 1000 bucks, $1100, right? But all I'm using the computer for is to DJ. It becomes a little different when you start to talk about production and all of that stuff, right? Then you're getting into multiple thousands of dollars. Right, there's multiple price points of how you can upgrade, for sure. Right, right. But just on the very basic low end, if you're married to having a MacBook, the Air is a great option for just DJing. And it's relatively inexpensive. Relatively, that's relative to other MacBooks, not other companies' laptops, that's for sure. But yeah, a big... portion of this update is really dedicated to stems, which I know that you're you don't use stems all that much but I'm wondering if this update and The way that You know the that they're going to make it seems like they're making stems a little more Usable on the hardware the existing pioneer hardware that's out or the rain or I'm looking at down on even So they're letting you use the stems on the hardware. And it doesn't all have to be MIDI mapped, where you had to MIDI map it before for the CDJs. UFO also had just showed me how to do it with super, super simple back in October. I learned that and then now this comes out. But it's nice to know that you're gonna be able to use this on existing hardware. I love using stems. It's just so, it's just, it sets, it can set your set apart, your DJ set apart. quicker than anything else right now that I can think of. I agree. I think it's a really cool feature and something different and you know, because DJs are haters, everyone hates on stems and all the terrible edits and mashups that are gonna come out, but like I think stems are pretty cool. I don't really use them at all right now, but I do think if it was integrated into CDJs and I was able to do it a lot easier, I would be more likely to use it. I love the feature. I just haven't really dedicated time to incorporating it into my set and maybe that's Maybe that's a failure on my part, but I think a lot of the sets that I've been playing recently in the last six months to a year are a lot more EDM driven and house driven. So in that particular world, it's not as, it's not as easy to incorporate, I guess. I mean, you still can, but I create a lot of the stuff that I wanna do. So that's how I get different, you know? I make stuff that's unique just for me and that's how I separate myself. But I think STEMs is such a cool way to become unique and get creative on the fly and set yourself apart for sure. It's kind of interesting that you said that. I feel like if I was playing minimal house or progressive, more progressive house, I feel like I would really utilize stems in a big way. Just because like. do it with the EQ though, no? You can, but to me it sounds cleaner. Because you can do, it replaces having to drop the mids out or whatever it might be that you're doing. I don't know, it seems like a whole new track when you're doing it with stems, as opposed to you're kind of just filtering it almost in a way when you're dropping it on the EQ. And that's kind of. Whenever I'm doing anything with stems, that's what I like about it, the almost cleanliness of it. Yeah, I mean, I think if DJs are using acapellas, like house DJs or EDM DJs are using acapellas, like they already have the acapella kind of thing and they're planning doing that type of stuff. So I don't know, I can see both sides of it for sure. I mean, that's mainly what this update's all about. It's all about the supported, the OSAs, the official Serato accessories, and having the, they're just supporting the stems on those accessories, meaning the hardware. So if the CDJs are supporting the stems, how does that work? Because there's no stem button on the CDJs, right? They're gonna drop new CDJs that have the stem button, essentially? So for example, the CDJ-3000 is supported, the 2000, 2000NXS, 2000NXS2, and the 3000 are the CDJs that are supported. So it is like replace pad mode. So that's what I guess, anything with pads, you used to have to MIDI map the stems to the pad. Well, you don't have to MIDI map it anymore, you could do it. I think you could do it right within the Serato software. But the MIDI mapping was so easy. But I could see where people get, people hear MIDI mapping and they think it's like some big intricate thing and it's not so bad. are gonna shut down immediately. Right, right, and that's why. So they have this, what is it, Open DJ Pro 3.1, launch Serato, replace pad mode. Navigate the settings and select replace pad mode with stems to activate this feature on your OSA device. So I guess like the cue points that we all use, like the hot cues, you can replace those with stems. That's cool. so yeah I don't know it'll be interesting to mess around with and see what it's like see if it makes life actually easier and I'm sure it will because you saw me like when I was doing it at the at the event that we had like having to keep scroll scrolling up to the top of the screen to hit to hit whatever stem I wanted to cut out or bring back in there was such a lot is gonna be, there's gonna be stem buttons directly on all the hardware moving forward, and that's gonna be an easy way for Pioneer to sell a new product, you know? Like, that to me would be the easiest. And this is just setting them up for that, where like, here's a solution for right now, until we come out with the hardware, the CDJs, that have the buttons to just drop the stems, which will be really cool. look at the FLX10. They have it, right? That came out that has the stem buttons right on it. And I love using it, but that's why I love using it, because I have access to the stem buttons right there on my hardware. I know that controller is not popular by any means with any of our DJs. Nobody likes to use it, but I do like it for that feature. It is a little plasticky. It's not the most, it doesn't feel like the most sturdy thing in the world. But I think it's, it's a, that was a step for them to introduce the stem buttons on hardware immediately. Like, isn't the Opus the big one? Like, the better version of that? It's probably on the Opus. Yeah, I haven't used the Opus. I mean, I haven't even seen the opus, to be honest, like in person. No, me either. But that FLX is, you know, it's not, they're gonna come out with something that is updated that's gonna be a little more sturdy than that. I think that was a little bit of a rush job that they introduced stems and then Pioneer needed to come up with something to put it on hardware and that's what they did. But anyway, I don't know, I'm excited about it. Like you said, I probably won't switch over to Serato. 3.1 for a little bit, just in case, but eventually. Yeah, I'm gonna hold off for a bit. I think now that, the big thing for me is I'm on Monterey, so I'm now two behind on the OS. I'll probably upgrade my OS to, what's the next one? I don't even know. I just looked it up and I forgot. But yeah. Ventura, and then Monterey. So I'll probably go from Monterey to Ventura now that Sonoma's out, and I'll go from 3.0 to 3.1 in the next couple months once we hopefully don't hear disaster stories from DJs about dropouts. Ha! and if there is there are disaster stories will talk about it next time on the pod uh... Couple things, Gary's gonna be in town, as of this podcast, when you hear it, he's up here for a couple weeks, so local DJs, you wanna come check out Gary, link up with him, he'll be around for the next couple weeks. We have our Beats Bartenders and Brushes, our B3. P3? Yeah. next Wednesday. So that's what December 13th Mills Tavern Hoboken This is a ticketed event So you can either get a free ticket to general admission or if you want to DJ and jump on the open decks There's a separate ticket for you as someone who wants a DJ These events are awesome guys Yeah, UFO. So is our featured DJ next month. I'm super excited. We were talking yesterday about his set I told them don't give me any ideas of what you're doing because I just want to experience it as a, as someone in the crowd, as a fan. I played a set with him, haven't really played any sets with him prior to Halloween. It was impressive. You wanna watch somebody use all of the hardware and software and do it during every song, he's a great person to watch. Just very entertaining. So come out, check him out. That's gonna be a fun time. For sure. Actually, one other thing, Get Down Radio with Two-Face just released this week. If you wanna go check that out, SoundCloud, Apple Music, Spotify, all those places, Get Down Radio, please check that out. And guys, follow us on all our platforms. If you haven't gone and checked us out on YouTube, go watch us on YouTube. Throw us a subscription, a subscribe. We need to build that audience a little more. So we would appreciate that if you guys would go check us out on YouTube and throw us a... subscribe over there. So thank you guys for listening to this episode. We will catch you guys next week. Peace. later guys peace.